Re Rib stitching over existing fabric/paint.

[N75LH]

Folks I have a PA-11 that had been sitting outside in the desert a long time. The fabric still punches good, but some of the rib stitching is broken in the wing. Has anyone ever re-stitched a wing with existing fabric/paint? Also, I do not know what type of fabric/process was used on the airplane(maybe razorback?) so I am wondering what would be the best product to get some tapes back on the wings after?

Thanks for any input.

Jeff C Page
Aledo TX
Pa-11

 

[bob turner]

It can be done, but getting the needle out the other side is easier with new fabric. Strip them and recover in good old Dacron - and always have the seine knot drawing in front of you. Lighter, better, and not much more of a project.

I am going to go to flat rib cord next time and do each stitch as a terminated stitch, tied inside. But standard stitching is good. When you see how easy it is to cover a wing, you will be amazed that you ever considered the big mess of stitching, taping, and painting old fabric.

 

[behindpropellers]

Why put a band aide on it? If its that bad recover the wing and be done with it.

 

[5139Y]

Rerag the wings but don't get sucked into the I have it apart so I can do this that and the other while it is apart, unless you have another cub to fly. I know. Put blinders on, do the proper repairs then go flying.

 

[Snert]

Rerag the wings but don't get sucked into the I have it apart so I can do this that and the other while it is apart, unless you have another cub to fly. I know. Put blinders on, do the proper repairs then go flying.

The Sgt. Schultz repair.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Seen lots of rib stitching eaten by mice. I would inspect them real good, look in the logs and find out what they were covered with, rib stitch, patch and fly.

After you figure out what it is covered with the manual for that process will instruct you on how to patch and if you can patch over the paint or not. You will more than likely have to take the paint off.

 

[N75LH]

Thanks guys. I want to have the airplane flying this summer, so it will be a patch job. It was purchased as a project (taken apart) in S. California in the early 90's and put together / signed off in 1994. I do not have an aircraft log book entry for recover, and all of the people associated with the rebuild are now in their 90's and do not remember. I guess it will take a very bright flashlight in the wing to see were the needle is going/ It will probably have to be sanded first.

Jeff Page

 

[cpthazard]

75, I've seen lots of different airplanes over the years with a few broken / eaten stings. If the general health of your wing is good. Fabric, paint, pulleys, brace wires, electric wires, cables etc. then I for one see nothing wrong with making some repairs to the broken strings. I use the termination or beginning stitch in place of a running stiching process. You know the one, long strings down both sides of the rib tie a very tight square knot then run the stings on up to the other side and tie another very tight square knot and half hitch the ends on both sides of the knot. Its shown in the fabric section of 43-13. Do this for every broken strand and use new Dacron string the rats don't seem to like it as much as cotton string. I try and pull the knots off the surface of the wing leaving only string exposed. You will need to sand off the finish surface in the area and put a dollar patch or a length of finishing tape over the new string and then paint or dope it like any other repair to your fabric. I'm with you, I'd a lot rather fly an airplane than work on it, BUT it's got to be Airworthy, if your wings are questionable then a complete re-do might be the way to go. Good luck Bub...db

 

[5139Y]

snert the point of the comment is do you want to fly or get into an expensive drawn out lets mod this and change that project. I have one, and having it take a back seat to other stuff and drag on sucks, unless you have another cub to fly do the proper repairs and go burn some gas.

 

[Cub junkie]

I saw a guy recover a right wing on a tri-pacer once on the airplane. After he was done it looked pretty good. He used a lot of ladders and step stools to get to the top but he was determined not to take the wing off and he made it work. I was there when he took the struts loose and pulled the slip cover on.

 

[mike mcs repair]

I saw a guy recover a right wing on a tri-pacer once on the airplane. After he was done it looked pretty good. He used a lot of ladders and step stools to get to the top but he was determined not to take the wing off and he made it work. I was there when he took the struts loose and pulled the slip cover on.

wow... now thats borders on insanity, and thinking yourself into a hard way of doing things......

 

[Cub junkie]

I saw a guy recover a right wing on a tri-pacer once on the airplane. After he was done it looked pretty good. He used a lot of ladders and step stools to get to the top but he was determined not to take the wing off and he made it work. I was there when he took the struts loose and pulled the slip cover on.

wow... now thats borders on insanity, and thinking yourself into a hard way of doing things......

I agree, this guy had a knack for making just about everything hard. He did it fast too. He was an odd character that used to drive around the airport in one of those little Messerschmitt three wheel cars from the '50's.

 

[behindpropellers]

What kind of time does it take to pull a wing, strip the cover, recover? Compared to:

Scraping paint off, re-stitching, and recoating everything?

I think if the fabric is 10+ years old it would make the most sense to just recover the wings???

 

[stevensonjr]

Jeff, while you are in the wing, look for large accumulations of dried vegetation, parts and pieces of shop towels etc. Steve was right on the money about mice eating your rib stitching. They do so while building good sized nests. I found 2, five gallon buckets full of mouse house in the wing on my L-4. I used the extended cable looking grabber tool to get the trash out but had to leave a lot in because it was in the leading edge and couldn't be reached. Mouse rings will stop them. Bill

 

[Steve Pierce]

What kind of time does it take to pull a wing, strip the cover, recover? Compared to:

Scraping paint off, re-stitching, and recoating everything?

I think if the fabric is 10+ years old it would make the most sense to just recover the wings???

Then he would have a plane like your J5 and my Clipper and Super Cub.

 

[bob turner]

If it is razorback, it is already heavy, and the paint will be cracking pretty soon. You do not have to rebuild a wing each time it is recovered, but new wingtip bows are always nice, and not expensive.

A recover with a Dacron process will make it lighter, more valuable, and legal. If your IA looks in there and sees razorback and no 337, you will be doing all this anyway. It really is easier to recover than it is to patch, unless you simply do not care what the end product looks like.

Opinion.

 

[Stocky]

Partial Cover

Got some bushwacking scars near the wing tip on the leading edge. The fabric is good and the wing is beautiful except for the aforementioned. Can you recover only a section of the wing laterally (i.e. the last 3 ribs worth)? Or is it going to require a total recover? Thanks

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Brian)]

Stocky,

Yes, do it all the time installing different wing tips. Pick a rib to cut to, lets say the 4th one in, then cut the fabric on the edge of the finish tape on the wingtip side. Remove the finish tape that you just used as a guide that is on that rib. Cover the tip using that 2 inch bare fabric that is left after removing the finish tape for your glue seam. Stitch all the ribs, including the one you left the fabric and stitching on. Finish tape and paint...all good.

Oh, be sure to use the same fabric and finishing system that the aircraft is covered with. We want to keep it all legal.

Brian.

 

[Stocky]

Thanks Brian, I thought my effort to avoid that pesky snow machine hole was going to be an expensive major pain. Now it's only going to be a moderate costly pain. I appreciate the speedy help. There goes my flap mod excuse.
Tim

 

[Alaska_Rallyer]

HALF THE GUYS HERE THINK THE ONLY "PROPER" REPAIR TO A WING IS A NEW DAKOTA WING WITH NEW FABRIC, PAINT, WIRE & CONTROL CABLES. OH... AND MIGHT AS WELL INSTALL NEW AILERONS AND COVER THEM WHILE WE ARE AT IT.


Hey why not just use some PK screws with the washers or the Aeronca wide area pop rivets? Drill holes, pop rivets, glue patches DONE in time to still catch the early bird special.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Compare a stamped rib to the truss Piper rib. The cap strip isn't designed to carry the ballooning load of the fabric through a PK screw or pop rivet. The rib stitching transfers that load across the entire rib from top to bottom. Less likely to crack the capstrip and pull the fabric up.

I try to cut outboard of the last rib leaving the existing rib stitching in place to keep the inboard fabric tight. Do everything outboard like you would if doing a complete recover. Like Brian says if you pull the tape inboard of the repair it gives you a good 2" to start glueing to and most fabric stc's require you glue a repair over structure. I would recommend getting the procedures manual on the fabric system installed on your airplane. There will be specific repair criteria there. Some system allow a patch up to 8" in an open bay of fabric.

 

[Stocky]

Thanks guys. The last covering was done using the "Air-Tech Coatings, Inc" process. Anyone familiar with distributors in Alaska or the process? Do they use the same fabric and chemicals as any other process that would be compatible. Top coat appears to be some type of polyurethane.

 

[Stocky]

Dooh! If I would have done a simple Google search before the last post I would have realized that my thoughts of polyurethane where correct. It appears to be similar to the Superflite.

 

[5139Y]

alaska rallyer i had martin clips on my 53 wings, and it ruined every single rib. it may have saved some time for the last guy, but it destroyed a set of wings in the long run. piper ribs are to weak to drill holes in.

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Brian)]

DO NOT, and I repeat DO NOT use martin clips, pop rivets, screws or any other fabric retaining system that require you to drill holes in your original Piper truss ribs....UNLESS you just WANT to replace ALL of your ribs with new the next time you are in need of a recover. The ONLY way to retain fabric on Piper Ribs is by rib stitching, the other systems may be approved, but they only destroy perfectly good ribs in their use.

Brian.

 

[S2D]

I agree with Steve and CPTHazard.
If you can make the determination that the wing and fabric are still in good shape, Just restitch the broken stitches. If its almost all of them, I'd question why, but if its 20-30%, Stitch cover with tapes or dollar patches and go fly.
Set aside some other year to completely redo them.

I pulled my PA-11 apart almost 6 years ago because of bent rear spars. Its still not flying.

 

[bob turner]

Wait until you try to straighten those spars. They are some kind of strong. Be sure to sight down them to make sure they are dead straight.

I agree with all who say rib stitch and not pop or PK. I did a 337 on some PKs in a Cub, and insisted on a note that said it was only good once. And I am not the guy who put them in there.

 

[S2D]

Wait until you try to straighten those spars. They are some kind of strong. Be sure to sight down them to make sure they are dead straight.

Straightening the spars was the easy part. Just remove and install new ones. Its all the other stuff that I decided to do that got me bogged down.