Radios
- Thread starter j3jm
- Start date
bob turner
Registered User
I have an SL 40 in my Cub. It is a spectacular radio, except for the fact that its memory algorithms will not let you arrange frequencies in the order of use. It has a "most recent" storage feature that I use for local frequencies, but it is easy to mess it up, and then it takes 20 minutes to re-program. Plus, if I go anywhere, I have to mess it up. Go with the Icom or a similar King if you use memory, otherwise the SL 40 is spectacular.
irishfield
BENEFACTOR
Penetanguishene, Ontario Canada
We discussed this a year or so ago...but if you go with the VAL make sure you order a line filter for the +12v so you have it for installation. The VAL's are terrible for DC squeel/noise or what ever you want to call that irritating electrical noise in your headset.j3jm said:
Wayne
Heh, heh, heh, this ought to generate more heat this winter than the old corncob stove. Looking forward to much dialogue.
I own and fly a King KY97A, since the night before the narrow frequency change. I fly another very regularly. They've both been absolutely the most reliable avionics ever in my experience. No downtime, no radio-related squawks.
I've flown a few Icoms, with almost identical look and feel ( they actually fit the same tray and pinouts), and a sterling reputation. I actually like the Icom display better: A bit brighter, and if it's mounted low-left (like mine) shows up better; King thought everyone in the world was going to late-model Cessna/Mooney/Piper center stack, fairly high right. Wrong again, especially in Supercubs. If I were to spend my own money again, I'd go with the TSO Icom, but that's just my opinion. The other difference is the Icom gives a positive "chirp" when you toggle active/standby frequencies, which helps you know where you are.
The couple of SL40's I've flown have been great, and I REALLY like the ability to monitor the standby frequecy, but hey, I have 12 presets on the truck radio, and surf them wildly to the great distraction of passengers. I'm a little concerned whether Garmin will keep this one in the lineup longterm. I like the SL40 bright display better than any of the competetive units, too. Especially handy if buried under the panel somewhere, as is typical on 'Cubs. A little more money, but a real contendor for me, especially if AWOS or Center frequencies are used a lot.
I've been around ~15 Beckers in the last five+ years, and actually used a couple. Love the form-factor, but most have had setup problems, or have been back for service. Also some reports of the backup battery corroding over time.
About the same comment for MicroAire, plus the knobs are smaller, the tuning quirks NOT intuitive; still pretty good bang-for-the-buck unless you change frequencies frequently. (And I owned one of these for ~5 years, no trouble, just awkward to tune, especially in turbulence).
Both the Becker and MicroAire are much shorter than the others, so might fit in some panel spots the others might not go. For these 2-1/4" mount applications, you might also talk to Tim Mara at www.wingsandwheels.com regarding the Dittel line.
The two of the three Valcoms I've flown had the background noise previously alluded to, and revert to a wierd frequency at shutdown, have to be toggled back to where you need to go. Extra, awkward workload. Might be a setup problem, but why bother?
Ignore the rated power, the nominally 4-watt MicorAire has sometimes boomed in better air-to-air, and air-to-ground than the nominally 6-7 watt KY97A, or old 10-watt KX-170B at 100 miles, so that isn't much of a factor.
None of the self-contained intercoms on these radios are very good. Get a decent PS or Sigtronics or the like, with seperate squelch circuits for both mikes.
And make sure the mike gain and sidetone are setup correctly for the headsets you're using: My KY97A has a decent compromise between the Peltor and the Korean Klark Klone I frequently fly with, but some of the others weren't so good. On many you have to pull the radio from the rack and tweak a trimpot near the back, and try again. The Beckers have LOTS of options here, and that's probably where many of the problems lie.
Better to pay attention to who's going to install the darn thing, what their avionics experience is, and make sure you get a good prewired wiring harness, and NEW coax and broadband antenna. And an installation warranty.
At the end of the day, don't go outside what your avionics shop has had good luck with.
As usual, just my limited experience, and worth every cent you paid for it.
Thanks. Cubscout
I own and fly a King KY97A, since the night before the narrow frequency change. I fly another very regularly. They've both been absolutely the most reliable avionics ever in my experience. No downtime, no radio-related squawks.
I've flown a few Icoms, with almost identical look and feel ( they actually fit the same tray and pinouts), and a sterling reputation. I actually like the Icom display better: A bit brighter, and if it's mounted low-left (like mine) shows up better; King thought everyone in the world was going to late-model Cessna/Mooney/Piper center stack, fairly high right. Wrong again, especially in Supercubs. If I were to spend my own money again, I'd go with the TSO Icom, but that's just my opinion. The other difference is the Icom gives a positive "chirp" when you toggle active/standby frequencies, which helps you know where you are.
The couple of SL40's I've flown have been great, and I REALLY like the ability to monitor the standby frequecy, but hey, I have 12 presets on the truck radio, and surf them wildly to the great distraction of passengers. I'm a little concerned whether Garmin will keep this one in the lineup longterm. I like the SL40 bright display better than any of the competetive units, too. Especially handy if buried under the panel somewhere, as is typical on 'Cubs. A little more money, but a real contendor for me, especially if AWOS or Center frequencies are used a lot.
I've been around ~15 Beckers in the last five+ years, and actually used a couple. Love the form-factor, but most have had setup problems, or have been back for service. Also some reports of the backup battery corroding over time.
About the same comment for MicroAire, plus the knobs are smaller, the tuning quirks NOT intuitive; still pretty good bang-for-the-buck unless you change frequencies frequently. (And I owned one of these for ~5 years, no trouble, just awkward to tune, especially in turbulence).
Both the Becker and MicroAire are much shorter than the others, so might fit in some panel spots the others might not go. For these 2-1/4" mount applications, you might also talk to Tim Mara at www.wingsandwheels.com regarding the Dittel line.
The two of the three Valcoms I've flown had the background noise previously alluded to, and revert to a wierd frequency at shutdown, have to be toggled back to where you need to go. Extra, awkward workload. Might be a setup problem, but why bother?
Ignore the rated power, the nominally 4-watt MicorAire has sometimes boomed in better air-to-air, and air-to-ground than the nominally 6-7 watt KY97A, or old 10-watt KX-170B at 100 miles, so that isn't much of a factor.
None of the self-contained intercoms on these radios are very good. Get a decent PS or Sigtronics or the like, with seperate squelch circuits for both mikes.
And make sure the mike gain and sidetone are setup correctly for the headsets you're using: My KY97A has a decent compromise between the Peltor and the Korean Klark Klone I frequently fly with, but some of the others weren't so good. On many you have to pull the radio from the rack and tweak a trimpot near the back, and try again. The Beckers have LOTS of options here, and that's probably where many of the problems lie.
Better to pay attention to who's going to install the darn thing, what their avionics experience is, and make sure you get a good prewired wiring harness, and NEW coax and broadband antenna. And an installation warranty.
At the end of the day, don't go outside what your avionics shop has had good luck with.
As usual, just my limited experience, and worth every cent you paid for it.
Thanks. Cubscout
Sam Beckett
Registered User
Hometown USA!
Icom..
Here Ye, Here Ye...
I have an ICOM and it is absoulutly the best radio I have ever owned!!!
Great Sound on both end RX and TX..... I would by over and over again!!!
As far as I am concerned BEST BANG for the BUCK!
Just a personal opinion..
Sam
:lol:
Here Ye, Here Ye...
I have an ICOM and it is absoulutly the best radio I have ever owned!!!
Great Sound on both end RX and TX..... I would by over and over again!!!
As far as I am concerned BEST BANG for the BUCK!
Just a personal opinion..
Sam
:lol:
I forgot to mention, I have THREE! (count 'em Three!) Narco Mark III Navcoms and a shoebox full of tubes, which I will gladly send at my expense to any cubbers that want them. I'll even make an additional Supercub.org donation if you'll take 'em all.
The 27 channel com 1963 Mk IV coffeegrinder was far superior to the advanced 90 com/90nav "digital" Mk III, as I found out in 1965. And the Mk II was pretty good, and the MK I and VHT-1 weren't all that bad, at least they kept the cockpit warm in the winter.... And how about that Phase Locked Loran on the Mk1!
Thanks. Cubscout
The 27 channel com 1963 Mk IV coffeegrinder was far superior to the advanced 90 com/90nav "digital" Mk III, as I found out in 1965. And the Mk II was pretty good, and the MK I and VHT-1 weren't all that bad, at least they kept the cockpit warm in the winter.... And how about that Phase Locked Loran on the Mk1!
Thanks. Cubscout
Torch
GONE WEST
Fairbanks, Alaska
I honestly don't even know what I have. It works and I don't care any more than that. I guess when I fly this next week I will look to see what I have. And for everyone saying this is a DUPE thread. This forum will see a bunch of DUPES in the future. What else is there to discuss?
mvivion
FOUNDER
Bozeman,MT
Cubscout did a great job of describing a lot of the options.
I'd chime in that I think the King KY 97 or 197 are great radios. I've not used the Icom.
The Becker is a super little radio, though if you are tight for space. If you really need a transponder, they also have a tiny little transponder.
My dream radio stack for one of these airplanes is a Becker Comm, a Becker Transponder (I have to deal with ATC frequently) and a NAT intercom.
Cubscouts comments re: the installed intercom function on all these radios is right on as well.
MTV
I'd chime in that I think the King KY 97 or 197 are great radios. I've not used the Icom.
The Becker is a super little radio, though if you are tight for space. If you really need a transponder, they also have a tiny little transponder.
My dream radio stack for one of these airplanes is a Becker Comm, a Becker Transponder (I have to deal with ATC frequently) and a NAT intercom.
Cubscouts comments re: the installed intercom function on all these radios is right on as well.
MTV
fobjob
MEMBER
Salt Lake City, Utah
I've had too many Vals on my bench with bad solder joints; and their operator interface sucks. Kings are good, ICOMs are good, the Apollos(UPS's) sound the best, in my opinion, and the spare frequency monitor option is worth it's weight in gold. The install kit that comes with the Apollo sucks, but can be worked around. A cheap radio will find you avoiding traffic areas...go for the Apollo.
bob turner
Registered User
hust spent two weeks with the Becker - neat little radio; sure wish I had neat little eyes to see those frequencies.
Fortysix12
Registered User
RanchAero Grand Vista, Brooksville
If your putting this in a J3 cub for local flying, within 50 of your house any of the lighter radios will work but I would evaluate which is he easiest to use and see and which one has the most convenient memory managment. For class bravo and long cross country I think the KX 197 is a good choice. The extra power does make a difference when stretching out on cross countries especially at low altitude. Big Bucks though.
Crash
GONE WEST
Nikiski Alaska
Radio
I have one of these and would do it again. I feel it is the best Cub radio going.
http://www.becker-avionics.com/product/files/ar4201.pdf
Crash
I have one of these and would do it again. I feel it is the best Cub radio going.
http://www.becker-avionics.com/product/files/ar4201.pdf
Crash
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Here is the pin out for the KY97A:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KY97A.pdf
Here is a list of others:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data
I have the Sigtronics wiring diagram at the shop if you need it.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KY97A.pdf
Here is a list of others:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data
I have the Sigtronics wiring diagram at the shop if you need it.
ground loop
Registered User
Anchorage
Crash, Who provides service for Becker in Alaska? I couldn't find anyone.
S
StewartB
ground loop,
Fedex.
Generally speaking, Fedex can pick something up at my office and have it across the country faster than I'd get the same item to Merrill Field.
SB
Fedex.
Generally speaking, Fedex can pick something up at my office and have it across the country faster than I'd get the same item to Merrill Field.
SB
Crash
GONE WEST
Nikiski Alaska
ground loop said:
No one that I konw of. The King KY-97 / 197 is made in China. The Icom A-200 is made in Japan. The Becker 4201 is made in Germany. It also has a very nice matching transponder the others don't have. I don't know of anyone that can tear into any of them locally and fix it other then maybe "swap till you drop" board replacement. It's always best to send any of the new solid state radios or gps to the factory repair center. The good thing is they hardly ever break. Crash
S
StewartB
A serious question for one of you whiz-bang radio buffs.
What causes an encoder to change from working fine one day, to being seriously off altitude the next. There's no inconsistency, that is, it doesn't start working well after it goes to hell. It just goes along fine for a year or so, then it's 1000' off. If you're familiar with Anchorage's vertical airspace seperations you know why that 1000' causes some concern.
What happens to make them report incorrectly?
SB
What causes an encoder to change from working fine one day, to being seriously off altitude the next. There's no inconsistency, that is, it doesn't start working well after it goes to hell. It just goes along fine for a year or so, then it's 1000' off. If you're familiar with Anchorage's vertical airspace seperations you know why that 1000' causes some concern.
What happens to make them report incorrectly?
SB
fobjob
MEMBER
Salt Lake City, Utah
Easy. The solder joints around the pins of the interface connector develop circumferential cracks, which are barely visible to the eye, even with magnification, due to the cable hanging from them with engine vibration. The cracks eventually reach around 360 degrees, and intermittently insulate the connector pin from the circuit board. The ack-30 is famous for it. Just take it apart, and resolder the joints around the interface connector as it's pins go through the circuit board. These guys almost always use wave soldering machines on the production line, and temperature mismatches and the additional thermal inertia of the pins compared to the other components often results in inadequate joints on the connector pins.
S
StewartB
So, in this discussion about "good" radios, what brand/models are the "good" encoders? You mentioned ACK. I believe that's the brand I've struggled with.
SB
SB
radio
I have had a KY-97 that has been switched back and forth between 2 cubs and 2 sprayplanes for 15+ years without a single problem other than breaking the on/off switch with my winter boots when getting in,,,in a big hurry... thats good enough for me. Crash, how long have they been making them in china?
Dave
I have had a KY-97 that has been switched back and forth between 2 cubs and 2 sprayplanes for 15+ years without a single problem other than breaking the on/off switch with my winter boots when getting in,,,in a big hurry... thats good enough for me. Crash, how long have they been making them in china?
Dave
fobjob
MEMBER
Salt Lake City, Utah
The ack-30 is a fine unit. It's just that it is used by most of my friends, so I have most of my encounters with that type. Most encoders have a D connector whose pins go into a circuit board with a cable hanging from it. Recipe for trouble, common to most brands....
The answer is to anchor the cable close to the encoder so that it doesn't stress the connector.
Another thing to check is the joints inside the connector ....
The answer is to anchor the cable close to the encoder so that it doesn't stress the connector.
Another thing to check is the joints inside the connector ....
S
StewartB
I'll check it out. Thank you.
SB
SB
ground loop
Registered User
Anchorage
Crash,
So are you saying that you don't think it is important to buy a piece of electronic equipment from a retailer that provides excellent hands on service locally?
So are you saying that you don't think it is important to buy a piece of electronic equipment from a retailer that provides excellent hands on service locally?
...
...
