Personal Minimums
- Thread starter CubChick
- Start date
Aviator
Registered User
Canada (Legally)
There was no need for this idiom in the first place. Insight seems to define this state of mind clearly enough. M-W defines insight as:Cub junkie said:
1 : the power or act of seeing into a situation : PENETRATION
2 : the act or result of apprehending the inner nature of things or of seeing intuitively
In historic terms it's just as faddish as "Heads-up" for advise or inform. Novices pick up and parrot these idioms with excessive zeal to impress CRM instructors, sometimes without knowing what they mean. That's what makes it annoying.
I think I do, but I don't think I'm too old to learn. Since you rate pilots' performances, I'd especially like to hear what it means to you.
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
I guess I really am a Neanderthal, I thought the cock fight picture was cool.cubchick said:Alright guys, this is OUR retort!
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
Aviator, Im glad you have the INSIGHT to have situational awareness. Since you are in Canada (legally) Im not sure how your Governing body prints their forms but in the U.S. they have those annoying terms on a lot of rating and check ride forms. Im going to suggest to the FAA to rename Situational awareness to "INSIGHT" and judgement to "should I be doing this" Im on "sensory overload",thanks for the post.
Cubus Maximus
Registered User
Just as an aside, another ANNOYING virus creeping into aviation phraseology is the dreaded:
"Whizbang 123 is departing/approaching airport XYZ, any aircraft in the area please advise." :-?
I heard a great turn on this the other day though, Some guy said:
"Cherokee 45 Tango is departing Brainerd westbound, any aircraft in the area please BE advised!"
Brad
"Whizbang 123 is departing/approaching airport XYZ, any aircraft in the area please advise." :-?
I heard a great turn on this the other day though, Some guy said:
"Cherokee 45 Tango is departing Brainerd westbound, any aircraft in the area please BE advised!"
Brad
CubChick
SPONSOR
Little Rock
Brad, curious...why do you think it's annoying phraseology to ask other aircraft in the vicinity of the airport to advise?
I like the turn this post has taken!
OTHER: Is it necessary to announce each leg in the pattern?
As far as phraseology, my instructor told me there's no such thing as a right or left final (which I understand). You still hear pilots (students) announcing that every so often.
I like the turn this post has taken!
OTHER: Is it necessary to announce each leg in the pattern?
As far as phraseology, my instructor told me there's no such thing as a right or left final (which I understand). You still hear pilots (students) announcing that every so often.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Brad, I hate the phrase also. It really riles up my Dad. 
54tw
Registered User
SE Michigan - K2T7
My first opinion on the above phrase is that the sender wasn't monitoring the freq to get a feel for traffic/situational awareness. To me it reflects of a lazy pilot.
On the other hand there's an IFR aircraft just released from ATC to "Advisory" and looking for local info prior to executing a visual or instrument arrival. This pilot has a higher workload than I and is working his way into "my" operating environment.
IMO, radio traffic congestion becomes a greatly increased unnecessary distraction when uncontrolled VFR traffic uses this phrase. If you're not talking to ATC prior, monitor local freqs in advance of your arrival and make adequate, but minimal calls. If every arrival requests everyone in the area to check in, radio comm can be overwhelmed by unnecessary activity.
Listen up, give respectful benefit of any doubt, and don't waste my time or distract me from something important because you weren't paying proper attention.
Despite the above sentiment, I'm not perfect so I don't expect it from anyone else. But I will be paying attention.
Bill Rusk
BENEFACTOR
Sandpoint, Idaho
My name is not Brad but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night (no kidding, in Cleveland, it was pretty nice now that they have remodeled it) but may I opine please?
The phrase "any traffic please advise is not in the AIM section on phraseology, but more important to me is it comes off as being very arrogant. "I'm not going to listen to the radio, you just tell me if you're here" Well EXCUSE me but if you want to know if there is any traffic in the area LISTEN UP. It probably came from the regional airlines that were doing a straight in approach (not an approved solution) to a tower closed, or uncontrolled, field and they wanted to cover their backside if there was a mishap.
Then all the little guys heard it and wanted to sound cool on the radio so they started using the phrase. Just a guess.
Bill
The phrase "any traffic please advise is not in the AIM section on phraseology, but more important to me is it comes off as being very arrogant. "I'm not going to listen to the radio, you just tell me if you're here" Well EXCUSE me but if you want to know if there is any traffic in the area LISTEN UP. It probably came from the regional airlines that were doing a straight in approach (not an approved solution) to a tower closed, or uncontrolled, field and they wanted to cover their backside if there was a mishap.
Then all the little guys heard it and wanted to sound cool on the radio so they started using the phrase. Just a guess.
Bill
Cubus Maximus
Registered User
See CC? These three said it for me nicely. ba da bing! 8)
I rage against the machine but alas, even a friend of mine and a 12-driver to boot spouts this unutterable phrase. Woe and despair...
ah Bill, the old "remodeled" Holiday Inn story. Ha!
Brad
I rage against the machine but alas, even a friend of mine and a 12-driver to boot spouts this unutterable phrase. Woe and despair...
ah Bill, the old "remodeled" Holiday Inn story. Ha!
Brad
CubChick
SPONSOR
Little Rock
My husband and I learned out of a Class C airport and where taught to say"traffic please advise" in uncontrolled airports. My goodness, I never knew we were being arrogant and lazy! :lol: :lol: :lol: We were also taught to announce each leg...and then told later by seasoned pilots that it was unncessary and clogging up the radio. I bet we irritated the heck out of everyone until we caught a clue!
The REAL learning begins after you get your ticket, huh?!!!
The REAL learning begins after you get your ticket, huh?!!!
R
raspraker
Crosswind Story By Cubchick
What did I start? (AMAZING)
To soon we grow old
To late we get smart
cubchick said:
What did I start? (AMAZING)
To soon we grow old
To late we get smart
Fortysix12
Registered User
RanchAero Grand Vista, Brooksville
cubchick said:
Midairs happen near or at an airport. Continue your good practice,I do the same, 25 years in the air,250 hours a year . Especially if the airport is where every student goes to land and practice. Just yesterday I am entering a 45 entry onto a down wind for 22 at GIF, a student pilot continued to call his progress but I still couldn't find him, he kept calling left, downwind, left base but I dont see him, I do see someone flying right traffic at my 11 to 12 oclock. I ask this airplane are your sure you dont' have your direction mixup? He relized he did and was very apologetic. But my point is he put me on guard. You must fly defensively as well. It's a good practice at an uncontrolled airport that is a common stoping place for students or just plain busy. Also if there so much radio traffic that you calling is clogging the radio, all the more reason to help separate traffic. But I will say that too many pilots use there N number that unnecessarily lengthens the call at uncontrolled airports , just
"Winter haven traffic red cub mid field left down wind 22"
your n number is useless info at an uncontrolled airport
While I don't use the phrase "other traffic please advise" I do announce 5 miles out and at each point in the pattern, particularly if I'm doing an abbreviated approach. I'm not trying to clog the air but I am trying to wake up those lazy and arrogant pilots who feel they can enter or play in the pattern as if they own it with no reporting, no information, lights out at dusk/dawn etc. until someone needs to take avoidance measures. I have watched, as have most of us probably, those pilots who are doing touch-n-go's, non-standard pattern entry etc. with nary a word on the radio. A wake up call prior to entering the pattern and updates as we go around is a small price to pay in time on the radio if it helps avoid a rather rough introduction to a fellow pilot. None of the above precludes "see and be seen" but is just another way of using all resources available.
--> Dan
--> Dan
redrooster
Registered User
western Washington
I agree with Cubchick & Anne that the catfight/jello/bikini comments are offensively sexist, even to an old sexist like me! I might think them to myself, but I think it's disrespectful to post them for others to read.
Lotsa comments pro/con about CC's decision making/judgement skills, I think her actions were perfectly acceptable. Took off in flyable conditions, knowing the destination's conditions might not be acceptable, evaluated them upon arrival & made a "no" decision, then RTB'd to fly again another day. Excellent! I've done the same thing myself, many a time.
"Any traffic please advise", "5 miles out","on the 45", "at the bend in the river"--all pet peeves of mine. Position reports should be short & sweet: who (white Cessna),where(3 southwest), doing what ( 45 entry left traffic 27). Then see and avoid while doing your thing. Too much jabbering on the radio (like your entire flight plan & life story) ties up the frequency and blocks the relevant calls--make it concise & precise.
BTW, I really liked the cockfight pic!
Rooster
Lotsa comments pro/con about CC's decision making/judgement skills, I think her actions were perfectly acceptable. Took off in flyable conditions, knowing the destination's conditions might not be acceptable, evaluated them upon arrival & made a "no" decision, then RTB'd to fly again another day. Excellent! I've done the same thing myself, many a time.
"Any traffic please advise", "5 miles out","on the 45", "at the bend in the river"--all pet peeves of mine. Position reports should be short & sweet: who (white Cessna),where(3 southwest), doing what ( 45 entry left traffic 27). Then see and avoid while doing your thing. Too much jabbering on the radio (like your entire flight plan & life story) ties up the frequency and blocks the relevant calls--make it concise & precise.
BTW, I really liked the cockfight pic!
Rooster
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Gotta agree on "other traffic please advise". Advise of what? Marriage advice? Investment advice? It is goes WITHOUT SAYING that they should re-announce when they hear you on the frequency. It is like the "Department of Redundancy Department" or "Deja Vu All Over Again"...
Got annoyed by this many times yesterday in the pattern here in the Northeast. They are words that should NOT have to be spoken, they are always implied, and they are NOT in the flight training cirriculum.
Just my humble opinion...
sj
P.S. Sorry to offend with the cat fight photo, I merely meant the first one as a joke, but often I am the only one who finds myself funny...
Got annoyed by this many times yesterday in the pattern here in the Northeast. They are words that should NOT have to be spoken, they are always implied, and they are NOT in the flight training cirriculum.
Just my humble opinion...
sj
P.S. Sorry to offend with the cat fight photo, I merely meant the first one as a joke, but often I am the only one who finds myself funny...
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
It's the little boy in you Steve. The devilish one. 8)
CAN I LAND IN THIS CROSSWIND?
Here's how to tell if you can land a crosswind. On final put the plane into a low wing into the wind configuration. Use rudder to keep the nose aligned with the runway, add power when needed. If you can maintain runway alignment in this configuration, you can land in the cross wind. If you can't maintain runway alignment, the crosswind is to great and you need to go elsewhere and land more directly into the wind. I have used this lots and it works like a charm.
This tactic helps alleviate the guesswork on crosswind landing decisions.
Scott
Here's how to tell if you can land a crosswind. On final put the plane into a low wing into the wind configuration. Use rudder to keep the nose aligned with the runway, add power when needed. If you can maintain runway alignment in this configuration, you can land in the cross wind. If you can't maintain runway alignment, the crosswind is to great and you need to go elsewhere and land more directly into the wind. I have used this lots and it works like a charm.
This tactic helps alleviate the guesswork on crosswind landing decisions.
Scott
Interesting comments on call out for "any traffic please advise". Never viewed it as anything other than a pilot being careful coming into the traffice pattern area.
I fly IFR and when released to Unicom by ATC am just coming onto the approach and believe me this is a very busy time and at that moment I'm looking for a sound bite of info ie who's in the airport pattern area. So I call out my N number at Initial approach fix (whatever the name happens to be) 5 miles out, inbound ILS17 any traffic in the pattern please advise. This seems entirely appropriate. Especially in our area where VFR traffic commonly does not subscirbe to VFR minumums
Scott
I fly IFR and when released to Unicom by ATC am just coming onto the approach and believe me this is a very busy time and at that moment I'm looking for a sound bite of info ie who's in the airport pattern area. So I call out my N number at Initial approach fix (whatever the name happens to be) 5 miles out, inbound ILS17 any traffic in the pattern please advise. This seems entirely appropriate. Especially in our area where VFR traffic commonly does not subscirbe to VFR minumums
Scott
