jimboflying
MEMBER
Does anyone know of a source for new PA12 tanks?
PA12 tanks
- Thread starter jimboflying
- Start date
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I guess the STC'd tanks that were owned by the guys in Vermont are no more?
I lifted this off the J3 site, what it means for all the tanks they manufactured will have to be answered by him.
Good news, I have just acquired the STC’s from Biplane Investments for left and right J3 wing tanks (The STC is for left or right or left and right). I will move as quickly as possible through the PMA process to get them back into production and available again, however this will take some time (I’m hoping it can be done as quick as a few months). Please contact me for more information and I’ll keep you posted on the timeline for approval and production.
Kurt Daudt
Daudt@me.com
(763) 227-0477
jimboflying
MEMBER
Are there any experimental PA12 tanks available?
AZinAK
FRIEND
Randy at Carbon Concepts will make you a carbon set that conforms to the bay. He makes them for -18s as well.
Broncoformudv
Registered User
Atlee Dodge will make tanks to your specs so they would be legal in a certified -12.
TurboBeaver
Registered User
Northern Maine
Might want research this option for short money..... from very knowledgeable 12 expert GP posted this.
"put PA-20 tanks in my 12 back in 1986 and got them field approved no problem. The 18 tank is identical except the 20 tank did not have the tube welded in for sight gages. I removed the drag/anti-drag wires in that bay and replaced them with a long 4130 strut through the tank and a shorter one to get back to the next set of drag wires. The rib outboard of the tank was moved in so the new cover would fit. Do a search on a 337 for 7889H and you will be in business." Just a thought??
I have done a few sets of original " turnplate tanks by simply removing them and completely resoldering the bottom seams ( less than an hours work) and had fantastic luck with the results! For some reason that option is frowned upon on here???? Ditto on replacing bungees on a 12......
Most common advice is to spend 5 grand on new tanks , or install Cub gear... oh boy......
"put PA-20 tanks in my 12 back in 1986 and got them field approved no problem. The 18 tank is identical except the 20 tank did not have the tube welded in for sight gages. I removed the drag/anti-drag wires in that bay and replaced them with a long 4130 strut through the tank and a shorter one to get back to the next set of drag wires. The rib outboard of the tank was moved in so the new cover would fit. Do a search on a 337 for 7889H and you will be in business." Just a thought??
I have done a few sets of original " turnplate tanks by simply removing them and completely resoldering the bottom seams ( less than an hours work) and had fantastic luck with the results! For some reason that option is frowned upon on here???? Ditto on replacing bungees on a 12......
Most common advice is to spend 5 grand on new tanks , or install Cub gear... oh boy......
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I am tooling up now to make 24 gallon Experimental tanks now. I have 1 done and it fits good. Making the right one soon.
So stop using stock old tanks. Plenty of options.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Actually there aren't. The PA12 used a different tank and mounting that the other Piper aircraft and the alternatives were Wag Aero, Clarence Witte and Dakota Cub. Wag Aero sold out and the PA12 tanks are in limbo. Clearance Witte passed and his tanks have been through a number of hands and as far as I know are not yet approved and Dakota Cub's tanks require reconfiguring the tank bay in the wing. I got lucky and found a Witte tank years ago when I had an original terne plate tank that had rotted out on a customers PA14.
AZinAK
FRIEND
If you're willing to do or have some work done, I'd go to the Dakota Cub 24 gallon tanks. I plan to some day. The Atlee tanks are huge and great for range, but the range trade off means less useful load. I don't often need more range and if I do, I just use fuel bags even now with my 18 gallon tanks.
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Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
It is my understanding that Atlee Dodge is making a run of aluminum PA12 tanks as direct copies of the original turnplate tanks as owner produced.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Steve,
How can they be considered "owner produced" if they are not made of the same original material? It's my understanding that owner produced must conform to the original drawings.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Just what I was told.
The same way they are doing owner produced parts for the skins on Bonanza’s. It’s fairly hard to find sheetmetal magnesium. They approved it that way.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Does sheetmetal magnesium have the same physical and chemical properties as aluminum? If yes or no, I would be expected to provide some proof of compliance. This is not a simple owner produced part. Someone must have received some sort of FAA's blessing in order to cover the responsibility of placing his/her A&P number next to his signature.
"(a) Materials and services used in the fabrication process should be properly identified and inspected to ensure that they conform to the applicable design data, including their physical and chemical properties, and other characteristics affecting airworthiness."
You’d need to ask the DAR that approved this for 100’s of Beech aircraft.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
So someone claimed the prize for replacing magnesium skins on V tailed Bonanzas?
Bonanza Society boosts ruddervator replacement design prize
The American Bonanza Society Air Safety Foundation has increased the financial incentive it hopes will motivate development of replacement ruddervator skins for V-tail Beechcraft Model 35 Bonanzas that often face grounding if their out-of-production magnesium skins require repair.
www.aopa.org
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
You answered your own statement. It's DAR approved. That is a form of FAA approval, not strictly an owner produced part. The same would apply if Atlee Dodge makes PA-12 tanks. Then if Atlee Dodge makes them and sells them, he would need an FAA-PMA approval.
Concur, changing the material makes this an "Alteration", so yes it is an "Owner Produced Part" but it is also an "Alteration of the original design. Now you need to answer if it is a Major Alteration that would require "Approved Data" and a 337 or a Minor Alteration that can be done with "acceptable data" and just a log book entry.
I think Beech did the approval for Aluminum skins. Not 100% sure but later Bonanzas do have AL skins.
You don't necessarily need PMA if the purchaser complies with one of the five attributes for an owner produced part identified in the 1995 FAA memo.
1. The owner provided the manufacturer with design or performance data from
which to manufacture the part. (This may occur, for instance, where a person provided
a part to the manufacturer and asked that the part be duplicated.)
2. The owner provided the manufacturer with materials from which to manufacture
the part.
3. The owner provided the manufacturer with fabrication processes or assembly
methods to be used in the manufacture of the part.
4. The owner provided the manufacturer with quality control procedures to be
used in the manufacture of the part.
5. The owner supervised the manufacturer of the part.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
My interpretation of changing from magnesium to aluminum in the field is here:
(ii) Tail surfaces.
(xiii) Changes to the wing or to fixed or movable control surfaces which affect flutter and vibration characteristics."
Beech can do it as a manufacturer...different approval process.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
In the case of Atlee fuel tanks....What did the owner provide?
And to get back on topic…. This is exactly why I’m experimental from here on out. And… why I had PA-12 tanks CNC bend and formed. And I weld them up. Even though I own a Cessna 172 , the certified guys almost deserve to suffer this stupidity. The FAA makes it so hard to be safer. From seat belts to fuel tanks.
If the owner provided drawings or instructions for the manufacture of the tank they complied with #1
