• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

PA 18-95 Can I replicate SuperCub #1

j3flyer

j3flyer

Registered User
Atlanta
I currently fly a J-3 that I restored 10 years ago. After restoring a Champ, a Chief, and a Citabria, the "Lets build with everything new" bug has struck me. I absolutely love the recent magazine story about the restoration of SuperCub #1. My plan is to replicate this airplane as much as possible but build it as an EAB. I am pretty much sold on New Life Restorations out of Tennessee for my fuselage. They offer both the J-3 and the PA-18. Here are my questions so far: 1) I have to have the front seat adjustable ( I'm 6'2"), like a later model PA-18. If I were to select the J-3 fuselage, would the front spar still be a head banger if the seat was adjustable? 2) If i did select the PA-18 fuselage (more $$$) are J-3 wings the same if I shorten the front spar? Wag Aero has a wing kit for the J-3 that is pretty reasonably priced. If the front spar could be shortened, would these wings work? 3) On the no-flap low horsepower Supercubs, are the lift struts the same as a J-3? Does anyone have any better suggestions for a wing kit? My goal is to have a different airplane than my J-3. I think that it can be achieved, I just want some answers from "those who have gone before me". Front seat solo, wing tanks, closed cowl, and at least 85 HP are my goals..Is this reasonable?
 
Mine started life as a J3, more then 1. Metal spar J3 wings cut back, 18 top deck, 18 baggage, 18gal tank in left wing, Smith cub adjustable front seat. 18 controls and trim, small TW, C-0200. Things I would do different. I would like a little more gas, not 36 gals, but if done over I would do 2 12 gal wing tanks, 5gl an hr is still 4 hr legs and reserve. I never have had flaps on anything I have owned and would maybe do flaps if I could have an over head flap handle like CC. maybe left side swing up window, Catto prop. Light is the key if you want a little C engine hotrod. Mine has the early short panel and my friend with a 35" inseam fits with a little room to spare but he does not fit under a normal SC panel. Mike Pyne does nice work and I would have him build what you want, maybe raise the front spar attach half an inch?





Glenn
 
I'm not sure that your goals will be accomplished with SC#1. In a previous thread you said.....

While I love my J-3, I long for something that is a little more comfortable for my passenger. The front seat in the Cub is just too tight for most XL adults.

Given your size and passenger needs, perhaps a widebody cub would be more comfortable. The std width cub is a little snug for lots of folks these days. It was designed back when everyone was much shorter and smaller. Also, I'm not sure there would be enough difference between your J-3 and SC#1 to merit all the work and money.

I have never heard of New Life Restorations in Tenn. Could not find them on the web. Can you tell us more about them? Always looking for more options.

I would consider contacting Jay DeRosier at Javron. 218-829-9320
He will sell a full kit or just about any part you want at a very reasonable price. Thus you can build as much, or as little, as you like. He will customize to your needs as well. He sells wing kits, fuselages, etc. J-3 and SC or just about any combination in between. The phone call is worth your time. Jay will be able to explain the differences you are asking about.

Hope this helps

Bill
 
Since I am about the same size as you are , both the J3 &Pa11 are just too uncomfortable for me anymore for anything over an hour or so, I think your idea to build up one like S cub#1 is a great idea, personally I would definately ditch the spars in your face ,and most certainly have the
Top deck all 18 forsure, having flown lots of modified Alaskanized Cubs, most are heavy by the time you do all stuff you need to work them,they certainly dont fly like an airplane that weighes 400lbs less?
But what anyone would need one rigged up like that for "fun flying" is a mystery to me. If you just copyed a standard factory 18/95 Unless You were going onto floats to haul big loads commercially , ditto on the flaps, dont need them unless,Your running floats or skis in deep snow conditions ,I doubt if you could beat a factory stock 18/95 and you would have all the good 18 Stuff, but it would fly and feel like a PA 11! Best of both worlds.......... good luck with your project snd post lots of pics! Jm2cw.
 
Last edited:
Top deck mod is important if you want to sit up high in front like a Super Cub. You could save a couple lbs with PA-11 lift struts, and six more if you can live with the J-3 struts.

If you pretty much follow the J-3 everywhere else, stay away from heavy mods like big wheels and brakes, safety cables, etc, and leave the elevator bungees out, you should arrive below 800 lbs and have a beautifully flying Cub. If going the 18 route, it may be worth the extra pound or so to put the cross-member in overhead. I would not do any more reinforcing than that. Do not be tempted to go for bigger tail feathers.

I agree on the gas - you need one wing tank, so get Biplanes' STC to do away with nose tank, and run two wing tanks.

I don't know about the flaps. If you could get them for under 20 lbs, maybe.

A number of heavily modded Super Cubs approach 1300 lbs. At that point, a nice 160 HP Lycoming is necessary to get Cub-like performance, and without the 2000# kit, the thing has less of a legal useful load than a good J-3.
 
Everyone, thanks. Can anyone answer my question about using wag aero wing kit, with the front spar shortened? I'm pretty much convinced to go 18 top deck, but use j3 wings.
 
You might consider Carlson Aircraft on wings. That's where Wag Aero gets their wing parts that make up the kits.
 
The -18-95 wing is a J-3 13 rib wing with a short front spar. Way up north here the spars are actually hrder to find and more expensive for the J-3/ -11. My project started life as a Wag super sport. I then built an -18 top deck on it as per the Northland cd. I think you could easily build an 800 lb, C powered airplane.
I second (or third) what everyone else says about Javron. Everyone I talk to that has dealt with Jay has nothing but good to say about his work. I scratch built my fuse. for about $5k but intend to call Jay when I am ready for my wings.
 
j3flyer said:
I currently fly a J-3 that I restored 10 years ago. After restoring a Champ, a Chief, and a Citabria, the "Lets build with everything new" bug has struck me. I absolutely love the recent magazine story about the restoration of SuperCub #1. My plan is to replicate this airplane as much as possible but build it as an EAB. I am pretty much sold on New Life Restorations out of Tennessee for my fuselage. They offer both the J-3 and the PA-18. Here are my questions so far: 1) I have to have the front seat adjustable ( I'm 6'2"), like a later model PA-18. If I were to select the J-3 fuselage, would the front spar still be a head banger if the seat was adjustable? 2) If i did select the PA-18 fuselage (more $$$) are J-3 wings the same if I shorten the front spar? Wag Aero has a wing kit for the J-3 that is pretty reasonably priced. If the front spar could be shortened, would these wings work? 3) On the no-flap low horsepower Supercubs, are the lift struts the same as a J-3? Does anyone have any better suggestions for a wing kit? My goal is to have a different airplane than my J-3. I think that it can be achieved, I just want some answers from "those who have gone before me". Front seat solo, wing tanks, closed cowl, and at least 85 HP are my goals..Is this reasonable?
Click to expand...

Have a think about what you want to achieve. Do you want to experience a Super Cub like the factory test pilot did in 1949 when PA-18 #1 first flew? Or do you want to incorporate all the "best" features of the subsequent 65 years of certified and experimental development into your Cub?

If the former, it's gotta pretty much be just like it was. If the latter, you can then make it wide-body, put on flaps, electrical system and all the things that are important to you. The end result will be quite different between the two and the whole build has a different mission.

Just be aware that the Wag Aero kits use the J-3 steel wood spar style drag struts with 3/8" aluminium packers. You may think that's alright or you may not.

+1 on the good luck and post lots of pics.

Andrew.
 
1949 pa-18

MainlandCub said:
Have a think about what you want to achieve. Do you want to experience a Super Cub like the factory test pilot did in 1949 when PA-18 #1 first flew? Or do you want to incorporate all the "best" features of the subsequent 65 years of certified and experimental development into your Cub?

If the former, it's gotta pretty much be just like it was. If the latter, you can then make it wide-body, put on flaps, electrical system and all the things that are important to you. The end result will be quite different between the two and the whole build has a different mission.

Just be aware that the Wag Aero kits use the J-3 steel wood spar style drag struts with 3/8" aluminium packers. You may think that's alright or you may not.

+1 on the good luck and post lots of pics.

Andrew.
Click to expand...
The 1949 Super Cub is exactly what I am looking for. I actually love the room-performance-ansd simplicity of my J-3. In the summer, it's basically a 1.5 place airplane. I think a non-electrical, no flap, simple as mud PA-18 configuration would suit my needs. I have sat in newer Super Cubs, ones with tall panels, and adjustable seats. I found it quite comfortable for me. I don't need wide body, or any fancy mods, just a basic 1949 Super Cub.
 
J3,
Your on the right track, the flap idea really doesnt hold water, you can already land shorter than a standard 150 cub now, let alone a heavy one,With tons of mods
, Extreame lightweight is the answer. To compare the smallish unmodified flaps, of a standard cub , to the fuselarge,of a lightweight cub, swung around broadside in a good sideslip , is no comparision at all. At 800 lbs compared go 1200lbs it is going to take more, than standard flaps, to fly as slow as you will in your "carbonite cub". Lol
Like Atlee used to tell them " a good J3/90 will whip em all.................
 
Last edited:
j3flyer said:
The 1949 Super Cub is exactly what I am looking for. I actually love the room-performance-ansd simplicity of my J-3. In the summer, it's basically a 1.5 place airplane. I think a non-electrical, no flap, simple as mud PA-18 configuration would suit my needs. I have sat in newer Super Cubs, ones with tall panels, and adjustable seats. I found it quite comfortable for me. I don't need wide body, or any fancy mods, just a basic 1949 Super Cub.
Click to expand...

That's good, you know what you want, just gotta go and do it.

Covering off some of your original questions, if it were me, I would try and do it "properly". C90 (a -8F if you could find one and you're comfortable hand-propping), Super Cub struts, since it's a Super Cub, and as near as possible Super Cub wings with the aluminium drag struts etc. The front seat is the same from S/N 18-1 to the end according the parts book, so you should be alright there.
 
J3flyer,
Regarding the Wag J3 wing; go with the Wag 2+2 wing. It's a Super Cub wing that can easily be built with flaps. Mine's wood but all the dimensions are the same as the SC wing as far as I have been able to tell. I've got pictures and a drawing with the measurements on my web site if you need to take a closer look.
Marty57
 
What your thinking is great, but real soon you will think should i have got flaps, then the lycoming thinking will come, then big tire itis. It will happen. Repeat. It will happen.
 
tempdoug622790 said:
What your thinking is great, but real soon you will think should i have got flaps, then the lycoming thinking will come, then big tire itis. It will happen. Repeat. It will happen.
Click to expand...

Maybe, the guy sitting in my cub in the 2nd post started in a j3 then an 11 and then a 18 which he kept for a few years then sold it. It took him 10 years but he found another pa11 in Montana and flew it home. thats all he flew for the next 20 years. If you ask him why he will say once you fly light everything else feels like a truck.

Glenn
 
Last edited:
I'm leaning towards a similar build, I'm thinking a bare bones no electric PA-18-95 with a set of Doug Keller's flaps and a higher compression C90-8 swinging a long flat Catto prop would be a lot of fun. I plan on keeping my Cub, give my Dad something to tag along in, but a light plane like that with a set of effective flaps would be the cat's ass. Unfortunately my small shop is full with my Jeep and I'm planning on a big move in a few years, so this project will have occupy space in my brain for a few more years.
 
I have been happy for 20 years without flaps. I fly with alot of super cubs and never felt I needed them, I could land as short or shorter most times. Now I fly along side a CC alot and the flap idea has my attention some. I like simple and don't know if flaps are worth the weight and one more thing to do. I feel if I'm on my A game plan while landing I don't need them but if I'm off it would be nice to throw the anchor out..
Remember that with all the hotrods at New Holstien a few years back that a lowly j3 driver had the shortest landing at 89'

Glenn
 
I agree, here in farming country on the Tx coast it's flat, flat, flat. Other than the occasional power line, there's not much in the way of obstacles, and I've only been a couple of places where I really wished I had flaps or bigger tires. Or more power for that matter. I'll be moving back to the Pineywoods in East Tx in a few years and it's a little more interesting there, but a Cub is still plenty of plane for it. Mainly I just want something different, it would be fun to sit in the front seat and have more (any) visibility over the nose. It seems like flaps are around a 20# penalty, and if I go with a 13 rib wing, single 18 gal tank, fabric interior with no extended baggage, 8.50's or 26" Airstreaks, Oratex or a light covering, and no electrics and a catto, I think I would have the weight savings to justify flaps.
 
Center Hill Ag,
I don't think the cub you just described in detail, would qualify as an regular airplane anymore, an extreame lightweight 18/95 ,with a hopped up engine ,and Catto prop ,sporting "Dougs Flaps", would be something that would probably come more under the heading of " An Animal" or maybe just " A Weapon" . I hope to see more about this on here with lots of pictures. Great bragging rights around the airport when you land to get fuel and someone says "how much room do you need to takeoff" and you could just dryly answer, "Well if there is no wind, and I am light on gas, about 50ft !!!!! LOL................... great stuff..
 
Last edited:
MainlandCub said:
That's good, you know what you want, just gotta go and do it.

Covering off some of your original questions, if it were me, I would try and do it "properly". C90 (a -8F if you could find one and you're comfortable hand-propping), Super Cub struts, since it's a Super Cub, and as near as possible Super Cub wings with the aluminium drag struts etc. The front seat is the same from S/N 18-1 to the end according the parts book, so you should be alright there.
Click to expand...

That is good news to me. So all PA-18's have the adjustable front seat? With it all the way aft, there was a ton of legroom. Were the PA18-95 SC's built from J-3 parts? I'm guessing that Piper must have used a lot of Cub parts when they started production. Did that include the struts?
 
J3,
I dont think so........ from memory the 18/ Pa 11 share the same struts?, the Pa18/ 95 had a heavier gear
The rudder is slightly different as well ,J3/ 11 the same, and 18 different. I had asked different times to get guys that own a 18/95 ,That is a factory airplane that came from factory, as Non Electric model for actual weighed weight but its hard to pin that number down??
Log book weights seam to only work in Disneyland, my PA11 that had Nothing added since new ,had somehow gained 42lbs since it left
the factory, it was recovered with Ceconite/ Buty Dope but I cant imagine that is 42lbs heavier than the factory fabric? Anyway the strut
Stuff is only from memory and I may be wrong on this, and I am sure the rebuilders on here will correct me if i have got this wrong?
E
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

j3flyer
PA-11 or PA-18-95 or Modified J-3
2
Replies
31
Views
18K
hotrod180
hotrod180
daveinfl
WagAero Super Trainer to SuperCub? Differences?
Replies
9
Views
5K
wlt
W
B
PA-11 question
2
Replies
35
Views
15K
TurboBeaver
TurboBeaver
K
Looking for advice for a clipped wing Cub
Replies
25
Views
13K
danal
D
B
bush L-4 project
Replies
13
Views
4K
bogey
B
Back
Top