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PA-18-180 Performance

Crash

Super super super. Congratulations. How long did it take? Thats awesome. I too would love to see the pictures.

Diggler

My understanding is the 200 series props are the only ones legal for certified cubs ala the CC conversion and others. The prop is "crap" compared to the 235 series. It is ten pounds heavier right off the bat. (I used the term crap cause that is the way it was described to me by a very knowledgeable source.) If you use the 235 series you may have to get a 337 or something
Supposed to be a very noticeable difference, but you need at least 180 hp for it to work ie it won't work on an 0-320 unless it has been hotrodded.
Just my understanding.

Bill
 
I have had both the 235 & 200 props on the same airplane. I sold the 235 prop, I obviously liked the 200 series prop better. Yes it is heavier but it had alot more static thrust on our pull tests. I will have to dig up the exact numbers but it was defiantly enough to justify the added weight. I wish people would not make statements unless they have actual test data to back up their claims.

By the way, we found that the 235 prop is great on a 160 HP cub. Call Byron Root at Sherpa Aircraft. He has spent months if not years testing different props, don't take my word for it.
 
Diggler,

I am not a prop expert either, but you logic makes since to me. I will try to run down our prop pull test data and post it.
 
Some people think prop tip speed has a lot to do with thrust. Tip speed is related to prop pitch, prop weight and prop LENGTH. If you throw one variable off too far, you can mess up a good thing. I personally think that the 39 pitch for sale is way too flat for the 1p235 84'' prop.
 
OK. Hope he doesn't get mad at me but my source was/is Steve Tubbs at Performance Air. He seems to spend a lot of time with the folks at Lycon. Sure seems to know his stuff. Maybe I misunderstood him.

Bill
 
I am definitely confused. The add calls it an 84" pawnee prop, which is what I thought was a 1p235; however, I thought the so called 'paddle prop' was the approved 200 prop at 82" length. So I guess there is also a 84' pawnee prop in the 200 series that I never heard of anyone using on a cub. Now I know why people use the sang terms "toothpick' prop or 'paddle' prop, so that idiots like me can attempt to keep them straight!
 
FAA

Staggerwing: As far as I know, there isn't a rule that limits you to what you can and can't replace on a rebuild. All the parts I replaced were FAA PMA'd "replacement" parts. I kept careful records of all the purchases. My IA had no problem signing off an almost new airplane after some for the wrecks that come through his shop for an annual. I know of several guys doing the same thing, it seems to be the trend. Take care. Crash
 
Congrats!

Crash,
Congrats on completing your rebuild. It was great to see it last year under construction and it was in fine form then as well. Would be a treat to see it now that it is completed. Though in no rush to change planes, now I have another grand example to strive for in my next Cub. Enjoy!
Bob Breeden
 
Dig,

I had good cabin heat although it doesn't get Alaska cold here in WA. I don't have a heat shroud and in fact you can't have the heat shroud with the 180 because of the slip joint in the front stack.

Heat worked good and my A&P ran a hose off the box inside the cabin to flow some back the the PX seat and that seemed to work well also. Mind you nobody was upside down in an Alaksan snowbank bushing off VG's at a million degrees below zero - to coin a phrase....

Hope that helps.
 
diggler said:
How do you attach a 235 prop to a 0320? Is there a adapter or do you just change the crank bushings?
Click to expand...

I think Lycoming made a crank for one of the 0320 models that had accomodations for the 7/16 bolts.( too lazy to look it up but I think it states it in the type specs) That would probably be the best crank to use if you could find one. Otherwise its bush and washer. Maybe they make a special crank bushing for the 0320 crank, but 0-360 bushings won't fit.
 
Heat

Bob: Thanks for the compliment.

Dig: Sorry for the late reply, I have not checked this thread lately. It was cold last weekend and I flew for a few hours. I can't seem to notice any difference in the amount of heat the heater puts out without the front heat shroud of the 180 hp conversion. When I had Airframes Inc make the exhaust stacks I told them to leave off the "donuts" for the front heat shroud. I have Atlee Dodge 2" defrosters and cabin heat box as well as his rear seat heat. The rear seat heat leaks a little heat like they all do and that is the only heat I had on most of the time. I was a little creative on the door seals and other air leakers on this Cub to it is really tight as far as exterior air leaks, heck the whole plane is tight and hardly squeaks. I also insulated the back side of all the interior panels and head liner back to where the extended baggage starts. I did this to retain heat and cut down on cabin noise.

I finally got some digital pictures and will post them. Take care. Crash
 
Crash,

Great hearing the details and seeing pictures of your new 180hp PA-18.

Back in Dec. you felt the Crosswinds 160 engine conversion was the best for a 12.

the Crosswinds STOL 160 hp conversion for my PA-14. It is the best conversion going for the PA-12/14 hands down.
Click to expand...

I'm curious if after your finishing your 180hp PA-18 project, you still feel that way, or if you'd now recommend a 180 hp for a 12.

Also, you seem to indicate that your 180hp PA-18 is not real light, what did the empty weight come out to be?

Rod.
 
Conversion

rsmarch: My comment about Charlie Center's (Crosswinds STOL) 160 hp conversion for the PA-12/14 was in reference to "other" O-320 conversions on the market. I feel his is the best conversion (for the PA-12/14 as far as O-320's go) since it is basically a "PA-18 firewall forward" and gets rid of all the old PA-12 junk and moves the CG back where it needs to be with all the added weight.

But, I am also a stickler for keeping the plane looking somewhat original and for this reason I do not like his O-360 180 hp conversion. Yes I wish my PA-14 had an O-360 in it but not at the high purchase price ($15,000 for the conversion without the engine) and the cost of making the plane look like a morphidite. PA-12's are hard to sell and I don't feel anyone building one up would be able to recoup their investment if they did it at the level I build at (no brag just fact) and included the cost of his conversion.

My PA-14 does performe very well with the O-320 in and I have no complaints for what I use it for. I do feel rather then building up a PA-12 that you would be better off building up an "Airframes Inc Widebody" PA-18 with the Penn Yan 180 hp conversion. The plane would be lighter, perform better and have a better and easier resale. I might go this route on my next project.

My PA-18 came in at 1206 lbs with oil and no gas. I thought is was on the heavy side but after talking with other "honest" 180 hp Cub owners I find it is on the light side with all the "heavy duty" bush parts I have on it.

Take care. Crash
 
Crash,

GREAT looking airplane. Can't wait to see it in person!

sj
 
Prop

Nobody runs that prop on a certified PA-18 because it's not the approved prop even though the FAA signed off 30 or more just a while ago..... but I've heard they run the best on the 180hp Cub. Crash
 
And yet , PPI manages to get an STC on something that apparently has no evidence to support its long term usage! Maybe we should all move to Indiana to get our approvals. I think that the risk factor on the 235 is that during one test it developed a potentially dangerous harmonic around 1600-1700 RPM's. I don't know if it was replicated.
I'm sure if someone had a profit motive they could probably get and STC for it. But since it is so much work to get the STC and so little profit available we will probably never see it happen. Maybe PPI will do it for us.
 
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