PA-18-180 Performance

[Crash]

As most of the guys know, I have been building up a 180hp PA-18 for the last year and I finally got it signed back into service and put 4 hours on it today. I've been asked to report my impressions of the conversion and parts used. First here is the list of parts used, starting from the spinner and working back

1. New Univair 180 hp spinner assembly.
2. New Penn Yan nose bowl
3. New Cub Crafters PMA?d stainless steel cowl channels (all four)
4. New top cowl and fasteners
5. New Penn Yan bottom cowl.
6. New side cowls with original Piper latches.
7. Factory new Lycoming O-360-A4P engine
8. New Penn Yan O-360 conversion dynafocal engine mount w/ new lord rubbers, bolts and hardware.
9. New Penn Yan carberator heat box.
10. New B&C L-40 light weight alternator w/ LR-3 solid state regulator.
11. New rear mount light weight oil cooler supplied with Penn Yan conversion.
12. New engine baffling.
13. New Airframes Inc exhaust stacks with slip joints built in.
14. New Atlee Dodge exhaust muffler.
15. New Atlee Dodge muffler heat shroud.
16. All new scat hoses.
17. All new carburetor heat, cabin heat, windshield defrost, rear seat heat and mixture push pull cables and knobs.
18. New Atlee Dodge PA-18 boot cowl attached with 6x32 nut plates in cowl channel and ss screws..
19. New false boot cowl attached with 6x32 nut plates in cowl channel and ss screws
20. New instrument panel with electrical switches and wiring moved from wing root panel to instrument panel (approved 337).
21. New Potter Blomfield breaker switches for landing lights, nav. lights, radios, alternator field, and alternator.
22. New pop out breakers for low voltage and starter.
23. New keyed mag. switch.
24. New TSO?d tachometer.
25. New AMP guage.
26. New TSO?d Becker Transceiver.
27. New Garmin 196 GPS mounted in panel.
28. New PS Engineering PS-3000 stereo intercom with 3 sets of jacks in wing root panel.
29. New intercom and radio wire harness with head phone jacks made up by Chief Aircraft?s certified radio shop.
30. New oil pressure line.
31. New primer lines.
32. All new mil spec. wiring and terminals.
33. New interior panels with gray hammer metal powder coating.
34. New LP plastics windshield.
35. New slider window tracks.
36. All new side plexi glass and sky light.
37. New Fine Line pilot and passenger seat cushions.
38. New ¼? Birch plywood floor boards with Poly Fiber 2 part epoxy varnish finish.
39. Brake master cylinders reconditioned.
40. Brake calipers honed and piston O rings replaced.
41. New brake pads installed on both calipers.
42. New left and right Dakota Cub PMA?d PA-18 wing assemblies with 24 gallon tanks and tank lids installed. PN 14394 (L.H.) and 14394-1 (R.H.). (replaced modified Piper wings with droop tips, not wrecked)
43. New Dakota Cub PMA?d standard PA-18 flaps. PN 12768 (L.H.) and 12768-1 (R.H.)
44. New Dakota Cub PMA?d standard PA-18 ailerons. PN 42585 (L.H.) and 42585-1 (R.H.).
45. New Univair wing tip nav. light mounts (left and right).
46. New landing lights and landing light lens (LP Plastics).
47. New Wag Aero certified pilot and passanger seat belts with pilot?s shoulder harness.
48. New Univair PA-18 fuel selector and all new fuel lines installed per Cub Crafters headerless fuel tank STC.
49. New Atlee Dodge pressure fuel tank caps.
50. New Steve?s Aircraft gascolator (STC?d).
51. New heat ducting for rear seat heat and defrosters.
52. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 fuselage. SN AF18060
53. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 left and right elevators PN AF12770
54. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 left and right stabilizers PN AF12769
55. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 rudder PN AF40622
56. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 fin PN AF40592
57. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 lower door PN AF12257
58. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 upper door PN AF12256
59. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 left and right 3? extended heavy duty landing gear legs.
60. New Airframes Inc. PA-18 extended landing gear short legs.
61. New Atlee Dodge 3? extended landing gear safety cables.
62. New hydrasorb bungees (one 1280 CW and one 1380 CW per side)
63. New Airframes Inc. H.D. rear lift struts.
64. All jury struts and clamps powder coated.
65. New Univair front rudder pedals.
66. Sticks, stick stubs, torque tube, rudder pedals, brake pedals, and all clamps were powder coated.
67. All new Univair control pulleys.
68. All new galvanized 7x19 1/8? mil spec control cables with thimbles and sleeves.
69. New trim cable.
70. New Univair forward trim pulley and pulley shaft.
71. New Univair trim crank handle.
72. All new trim pulleys.
73. New trim balance springs.
74. New Univair H.D. trim screw.
75. New Univair trim screw yoke.
76. New Scott 3200 tail wheel assembly.
77. New Scott tail wheel spring kit.
78. All new mil spec screws, bolts, nuts and misc. hardware used throughout.
79. Ceconite 101 with Superflight STC for Dacproof, Sprayfill, the butyrate

The first thing I noticed is it accelerates from a dead stop much harder then the O-320-160 it had in it before. It really sets you back in the seat and you had better have it lined up down the runway before throwing the whip to it. When it breaks ground even with one notch of flaps it climbs out like a rocket. I keep pushing the nose down, but if you just leave it alone it will run up to about 75 mph and set in at a 1500 fpm climb out. After flying a 160hp Cub for 12 years it just amazes me and I find myself grinning as it goes up like an elevator. The Airframes Inc fuselage and Dakota Cub wings must be as close to perfect as you can get. Right out of the gate it flys flat and level, hands free. It also trims out and holds altitude very well.

Before this rebuild it had extended wings, flaps and ailerons. I noticed it has much lighter stick input with the stock ailerons and feels good with full flaps. I can't say I found any of the "nose heavy" feeling others said the 180hp Cubs have. One thing I like is when landing you just pull on full flaps and 45 mph with no trim adjustment and it floats in nice and easy. Before with the O-320 I was always cranking the trim handle while setting up to land and it was a distraction.

Cruise is around 101 to 105mph at 2400 - 2450 rpm. I can tell that an O-360 shakes more then an O-320 but the dynafocal mount makes it run like a sewing machine. It is the smoothest Cub I've ever been in.

In conclusion, it is hard to beat a nice light 160hp Cub, but this 180hp Cub really rips and I like that. I would have a hard time going back. Crash

 

[ground loop]

After you fly it on floats, going back to the 160 will be even more difficult!

 

[Crash]

Floats

Ya, this thing would really rip on my Baumann 2100's. I might do it just for the heck of it. Crash

 

[skysigns]

180 cub

what does it weigh and what prop are you using

 

[Crash]

Answers

1195 lbs with no fluids. 43 pitch. 11.0 EWCG. Crash

 

[ground loop]

Crash, Did you put upper and lower baggage doors on it? Did you get them field approved? Why is it so hard to get baggage doors llike charlie Centers or the upper baggage doors approved?

 

[Steve Pierce]

I never noticed before but Dan's doesn't list being STC'd. Cub Crafters is STC'd.

http://www.dansaircraft.com/cargo_door.html

http://www.dansaircraft.com/upper_baggage.html

http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/products/BaggageDoor.asp

 

[Cub Kid]

Crash,

Congrats! I can imagine that the 180 horse 18 is great. Never flown one, but the 180 horse 14 I used to fly was a blast. Always good to hear about a project getting back in the air. Have fun with it, and would love to see some more pictures of it here one of these days

Bill

 

[StewartB]

Crash,
You deserve a public "Atta boy" for your 18. It's beautiful, and by the way you jumped over the trees in front of my place, it performs awfully well, too. I have never even considered flying the Cessna out that way. The 12? Maybe, but it won't clear the trees like you did. Pretty awesome!

That plane is well conceived and exceptionally well executed. Nice job. Congratulations.

SB

 

[diggler]

delete

 

[Crash]

PA-18

Diggler: Yes I built all new wing root fairings and wing root panels.

Stuart: Thanks for the compliment, it was a nice visit, I always enjoy BS ing with you.

Ground Loop: I put in the upper and lower baggage before the FA process changed. I have the upper baggage side door with a trap door in the upper baggage floor going to the lower baggage.

I spent Sunday putting it on skis and if anyone is interested, when you have Landes 2500's and go to 3" extended gear the front check cable is 59 3/8" long (eye to eye) and the rear check cable is 38" long (eye to eye). Put 3 to 4" of stretch on the spring when the back check cable is tight. You end up with 3.5 degrees (Landes says 3 to 4 degrees) of tip up in level flight and 18 (Landes says 15 to 20 degrees) degrees of nose down check (remember you have tall gear and need a little more nose down check for going over humps). Now I can't wait to get it out in some deep powder. Take care! Crash

 

[PA-12 Super Cruiser]

Crash,

I noticed you installed 2 new wings from Dakota Cub. I have a PA-12 that I am looking into the possibility of putting 2 new wings on. I have a metalized wing and would like to go back to fabric. Is Dakota the best deal vs. building your own wings up from spar, ribs.. If you have any other ideas or thoughts I'm open.

Jeff

 

[cubscout]

Shoot! Now there's another Supermod/Supercub to drive the prices up even further.

Seriously, a well thought-out, and (to my feeble mind) well-matched set of mods. Congratulations on all.

So... once upon a time in a land far ago and long long away a feller we knew dropped in in his 235Maule, chatted for a while, then did his best "Smoky and the Bandit 235 Maule" departure; the movie had just come out. Pretty impressive. A few minutes later, I had occasion to shag a light Dave Johnson 180 cub to a nearby field for maintenance. Holy Smokey, almost no takeoff roll, and climbed like a bandit! Impressed even myself.

Look forward to seeing it when I'm your way.

 

[cubpilot2]

Crash:
Didn't you mention awhile back that you were also extending the leading edge and got it approved before the changes, or is my "oldtimers disease" setting in?

By the looks of your list it appears you "jacked up the seat" and ran a new airplane under it.

Makes me starting to day dream about putting a 180 in mine. What do you figure the conversion cost?

Congratulations on your completion. Love to see it someday and meet you.

 

[Crash]

PA-18-180

PA-12 Super Cruiser: If your spars, compression members and hinges are in good order then I would just buy a complete Dakota Cub rib kit for about $2,500.00 and go from there. I have also heard that their 24 gallon tanks are now approved for the PA-12 and that would also be on my list. You can buy complete wing assemblies either assembled or un assembled. If I was going on floats most of the time then I would get them un-assembled. I would then acid etch, alodine and epoxy primer all the parts then assemble. If not, then it's only about $1,300.00 a set to have them assembled, ready to go, and they do first class work.

Cub pilot 2: I did extend the leading edges and got it field approved the last day of the FAA change over period. They said they will never approve this mod again until someone gets an STC for it.

Take care. Crash

 

[ground loop]

Why would you extend the leading edge rather than buy the extended wing by Dakota?

 

[Cub Kid]

Cost? that would be my guess. Besides are they talking about extending the LE back? It could be that I am lost...happens a lot.

Bill

 

[StewartB]

Crash extended the leading edge metal aft of the spar, in order to prevent pillowing of the fabric. It's been a popular, almost automatic mod up here. It also helps when you need to get a little aggressive with icy wings. But, the FAA says no more, at least not without engineering. His Dakota wings are stock length with standard tip bows. And very pretty. His tapes are perfect.
SB

 

[Crash]

PA-18-180

I noticed a strange thing. On my original stock 1977 PA-18-160 hp weight and balance sheet done in 1989 the EWCG was 11.06. The new EWCG is 11.00. No big change in CG adding the O-360 with a dynafocal mount up front and exchanging all the heavy parts (oil cooler, starter, alternator etc.) for light weight parts and getting rid of the vacuum system. Crash

 

[cobblemaster]

Maybe CC is right by saying that a 180 conversion only adds 1 lbs over stock.

 

[Wayne Mackey]

dope

Crash,
Sounds like a great cub. I read that you used super flight dope. I have allways used
randalf and have been looking at going to super flight dope. What is your thoughts
on the two. Thanks in advance. Wayne

 

[Crash]

Dope

Wayne: I used Randolph Insignia White butyrate over the "Spray Fill" silver coats as allowed in their STC, they don't specify the brand of dope used. Like you, I am more familure with Randolph dope and tend to stick to it verses other brands. Crash

 

[R. JOHNSON]

Crash, why do you use Superflight for the build up coats and Randolph top coat? Also has anyone used Certified Coatings from Aircraft spruce, we used it through silver on some Cub wings and I couldn't tell a difference from Randolph and it's about half the price.

 

[diggler]

delete

 

[ground loop]

Crash, Did you keep tabs on how much you spent on parts and materials?

 

[Crash]

Tabs

I kept tab of the costs and can say it was less then buying a new Top Cub but it wasn't cheap. I sold a lot of parts off the old plane but kept the paperwork and about $10K worth of small parts. I always wanted a new PA-18 custom built with just the mods I like. The only way you can get one is to build it yourself. Plus I just enjoy working on them. Crash

 

[ground loop]

When will you post the pictures? Or better yet, where is it parked. I am anxious to see it. It sounds spectacular!

 

[cub_driver]

Crash stopped in on me today as he taxied up it did not take a trained eye to tell this cub of his is not a ordinary Alaskan cub, it sparkled! We talked about cubs for a while but the day was to nice to be on the ground so Crash departed. In all honesty I have never seen a cub climb like his! Crash made a low pass to wave goodbye and we all just stood there with a bad case of cub envy.

Great job Crash when I rebuild mine I will be asking you for advice.

Cub_Driver

 

[Steve Pierce]

Crash quit flying that thing long enough to post some pictures. Sounds awesome. Congrads.

 

[Staggerwingse17b]

Hey Crash,

Nice job. Did the Faa say anything about all the major components being new and not from the original a/c? I was just wondering how that works with them? I plan on maybe doing a project like yours in the future.

Thx
John