PA-18-150 empty weight and CG

[jnorris]

Hi Fellow Flyers!

I am interested in finding out what the typical empty weight and empty CG is for a PA-18-150. I'd appreciate any info that you could post or pass along.

Thanks!

Joe Norris

 

[Alex Clark]

Some run into the 1200s due to radios and other add-ons.
Weight watchers get theirs down into the 1100s.

I knew a guy up at Anderson Lake who had a stripped out PA-18-135 without lights, wiring or anything he thought weighed anything...
His came in at 1020.

 

[jnorris]

Those empty weights sound about right. My 90 hp PA-18 weighs in at 906, but it's pretty basic. I'd guess most 150 hp Super Cubs come in somewhere between 1000 and 1100, with extreme examples heavier.

Any idea on where the empty-weight CG is on a PA-18-150. If someone could post the numbers for their airplane (empty weight and empty CG) I'd really appreciate it.

Joe Norris

 

[Crash]

Those empty weights sound about right. My 90 hp PA-18 weighs in at 906, but it's pretty basic. I'd guess most 150 hp Super Cubs come in somewhere between 1000 and 1100, with extreme examples heavier.

Any idea on where the empty-weight CG is on a PA-18-150. If someone could post the numbers for their airplane (empty weight and empty CG) I'd really appreciate it.

Joe Norris

A lot depends on if it is set up for the "Bush" or it is a "City" Cub. A "bush ready" 150hp PA-18 will come in around 1150. A "bush ready" 160 hp PA-18 will come in around 1160 lbs. A "bush ready" 180 hp PA-18 will come in around 1190 lbs.

The EWCG on my '77 PA-18-160 was 11.06. After converting it to 180 hp it came in at 11.00. Crash

 

[Rookie]

I guess mine is an "extreme example". It's a 150HP "City Cub", with gyros, electric, under seat storage, little tires, safety cables, heavy tail spring, and cruise prop. Weight is 1153 (with oil, w/o fuel), and CG is 10.94. Pilot's station is 11.00, so the airplane literally moves around the pilots heart.

 

[jnorris]

Thanks guys! That's just the info I was looking for.

Joe

 

[RON NORMARK]

PA 150 empty weight

My wife's PA 18-150 weighs 1025. It is a stock airplane with no extra instruments and one radio. My Cub weighs 850 and is stock with 108hp
one wing tank, and no electrical system. It flys much better than the
150hp.

Ron

 

[sj]

I had 994CC weighed today. Hold on to your hats, I may be in the husky category as far as weight goes...

Bear in mind I have:
180HP C1G engine
31" BW's
Fuel steps, extended gear, safety cables
32 gallon belly pod, elect pump, etc.
amphib electric and manual pump and warning system, float hangers
garmin 420 & GTX 327 but no vac and gyro
BW Tailwheel
battery in the tail
Sensenich prop
Droop tips, extended ailerons and wings

1288 lbs empty, EWCG 12.13

It may be a "fat boy", but it sure is fun! I plan to loose 100lbs, then I can fly it and be right in there with you other guys.

sj

 

[Luke_theDrifter]

Bear-bones Cub w/ elect (PA-18 150....0-320 pumping 187 ponies), big tires, stock everything else, and weight striped where posible w/o taking away strength. Metal interior to make it easier to wash-out the blood.

True weight, on a scale; 1067lbs.

+++++++++++++++

PA-11, 0-235 108/115hp, no elect, cub tail (PA-18), cub flaps (PA-18), cub gear, cub wing tanks....true weight 863lbs. Flys great light, put some weight in, and it suffers.

good flying...>Byron

 

[CRANMAN]

Joe,
I finally took delivery of my PA-14 180 on Saturday. As you know it was formerly a Canadian registered aircraft. The aircraft was weighed in 1999 following a complete rebuild. The EW on 6" extended gear, vac. sys., Garmin GPS-com and transponder is 1147lbs. On the Wipline 2100a"s the EW is 1446lbs.
Jon

 

[Frank T]

JON

Was it weighed again after the floats were installed or was their weight just computed from the data supplied by wipaire? There was a post on the site here last week that indicated the floats are about 80# heavier than the data Wipaire provides.

Frank

 

[jnorris]

I finally took delivery of my PA-14 180 on Saturday.

Hi Jon!

How are things in the northwoods? Let me know how you like the -14 as you get to know it better. Sounds like a neat bird!

Cheers!

Joe

 

[CRANMAN]

Frank T
The logs indicate that it was weighed with the floats. I believe that every Canadian AC must be actually weighed, not computed, at least every five years. Any Canadians care to weigh in here ( no pun intended)?
Jon

 

[55-PA18A]

1955 PA-18A-150 on 29 in. GAs, elect. with bare bones panel, Borer, and the paper says 1,066 pounds

55

 

[Crash]

Weights

I have a hard time beleiving some of these weights. My friend just got his 1981 PA-18 out of rebuild with new fabric but a basic panel, big tires, HD rear struts, Firman pod, 160 hp...1234 lbs. My PA-14 160 hp built to be extra light came in at 1240 lbs. I don't see how a 180 hp PA-14 can be 1147 lbs, and these other Cubs at 1,000 something...bu bu bull wooster. You guys are just kidding yourselves. Crash

 

[Charlie Aileron]

Since you don't believe these certified guys, I guess you won't believe my replica weighs 969 either! I built to stay light from the beginning.

 

[Crash]

Since you don't believe these certified guys, I guess you won't believe my replica weighs 969 either! I built to stay light from the beginning.

If you have electrical (starter, alternator and battery) no! Someones scales are off. It is either on our end (Alaska) or your end, but no, after seeing your pictures 969 lbs just dosn't add up. Crash

 

[mvivion]

Crash,

Didn't they explain that to you in your high school physics classes?

Since we are closer to the pole up here, the magnetic field is stronger, therefore gravity is more powerful.

That's why I weigh 185 up here, but when I'm at Sun N Fun I only weigh 165, and I can eat all the junk food I want.

Either that or the rest of the world is trying to repel all those Lower 48'ers.

I've had precisely this very experience, though. We took delivery of an airplane in the lower 48 that was allegedly weighed, brought it here and weighed it, and it was 100 pounds heavier.

Maybe it's because the rest of the world sucks.......

MTV

 

[CaptFox]

I think a/c weight is directly dependent on the size of the cash tip to the guy with the scales who's doing the weighing...

I've seen a few unrealistic numbers and in one case virtually impossible numbers Unless they forgot to put the engine on before weighing but thats another story....

David.

 

[mvivion]

Oh, you're supposed to weigh them WITH the motor?

Dang, I musta missed that part too.

MTV

 

[aktailwheel]

My PA18-150 was recently weighed at 1177, GAs, heavy gear, most Alaska mods. Still has the old battery in back, generator, and heavy starter though so there is some room to slash a few more pounds (of course it will make my wallet quite a bit lighter too...). Just took out an old vacuum system and a pile of useless instruments, so I probably am down to the 1170 range. If the pilot loses the 20 lbs he needs to, the plane will get even lighter. Maybe instead of going flying tonight I should ride my bike instead? :roll:

Shane

 

[Crash]

My PA18-150 was recently weighed at 1177, GAs, heavy gear, most Alaska mods. Still has the old battery in back, generator, and heavy starter though so there is some room to slash a few more pounds (of course it will make my wallet quite a bit lighter too...). Just took out an old vacuum system and a pile of useless instruments, so I probably am down to the 1170 range. If the pilot loses the 20 lbs he needs to, the plane will get even lighter. Maybe instead of going flying tonight I should ride my bike instead? :roll:

Shane

Finally an honest Cub pilot! What are you other guys weighing your Cubs on? Are they certified scales and what is your equipment list, i.e. tires, gear, etc.?
Crash

 

[RON NORMARK]

Cub weight ca ca

If some of you guys don't believe our scales maybe the performance might convince you. My little 850 lb Cub with flaps and a puny 108hp Lyc
and tiny original brakes, whupped the VG, Borer prop, tundra tire boys
in the shortest landing and shortest ground roll at the NC SC flyin. I know there is a purpose for all those heavy mods, but if you don't really
need them, your plane will fly better and be a lot more fun without them.

Ron

 

[Fortysix12]

Vero Beach 94 stock with Muncie radio Package. 1134 lbs.

 

[Fortysix12]

Re: Cub weight ca ca

If some of you guys don't believe our scales maybe the performance might convince you. My little 850 lb Cub with flaps and a puny 108hp Lyc
and tiny original brakes, whupped the VG, Borer prop, tundra tire boys
in the shortest landing and shortest ground roll at the NC SC flyin. I know there is a purpose for all those heavy mods, but if you don't really
need them, your plane will fly better and be a lot more fun without them.

Ron

Dear Ron,

Payload.

 

[Charlie Aileron]

If you have electrical (starter, alternator and battery) no! Someones scales are off. It is either on our end (Alaska) or your end, but no, after seeing your pictures 969 lbs just dosn't add up. Crash

I admit my scales may not be as accurate as they need to be. They are not multi $K scales, but could they be that much off?

From the very start of construction I made it a priority to try and keep the plane light. Some of the major mods for weight saving, but by no means all of them, are: .............Wood sensenich prop from Jim Drometer, light weight rear case mount alternator, light weight starter, lightweight dry cell battery, 13 rib Piper rib wing(not Dakota or Univair), self fabricated non adjustable front seat, rear seat made from 6061T6 aluminum, all interior panels, with the exception of the extended baggage floor, made from .016 2024T6 aluminum, no muffler just straight stainless pipes, single puck Cleveland brakes with matco master cylinders, etc, etc........ Many more minor things that saved weight were incorporated during constuction. Throughout the building process I tracked the weight and cg of every item on an Excel spread sheet. In the end I figured I had saved over 100lbs! Even if my scales were 50 lbs off I still would be very light by comparison to other certified aircraft. I am in no way an expert in this debate but the performance of the plane is outstanding and colloborates in some degree the weight figure.

 

[pak]

Mine, when I rolled it out was 1152#. I still have the old fuse (airframes may be a bit heavier), stock wings with all piper ribs and no leading edge extensions( Dakota ribs are heavier and well worth the extra weight), at the time I had 24" multipurpose tires, metal headliner, all stits with polytone top, big battery, stock starter and generator, basic panel and stock tanks. To do it over again I'd get a new fuse(makes for easier rebuild), lightweight starter, battery, oilcooler and alternator. Might lose a few lbs that way. I would also add the Dakota tanks. Bottom line is it doesn't matter what it weighs I'll fly it anyway.pak

 

[Crash]

Bush Ready

As an Alaskan Cub driver/builder, verses a Lower 48 Cub driver/builder our perspectives are totally different and that is where the weight comes in.

Below is a list of items that add additional weight, but I have installed on my current PA-18 and would do on future projects because I feel these mods make for a stronger, better PA-18 that is used in the Bush. In the states most of these mods are not really needed so your Cubs are lighter.

1) 3" extended gear, short legs, and safety cables, adds approx. 10lbs over stock Piper stuff.

2) Atlee Dodge boot cowl (uses .032 for upper cowl and SS firewall), adds approx. 3 lbs.

3) Atlee Dodge tie downs, adds approx. 2 1/2 lbs.

4) Atlee Dodge strut re-enforcements, adds approx. 1 1/4 lbs.

5) Atlee Dodge float lift tabs, adds approx 3/4 lb.

6) Airframes Inc. unbreakable rear lift struts, adds 8 lbs.

7) Penn 180 hp conversion, adds 20-25 lbs.

8) Dakota Cub solid ribs, adds 7 lbs.

9) Dakota Cub 24 gallon tanks, covers, & 3rd strap, adds approx 8 lbs.

10) Dakota Cub .025 (stock is .020) leading edges, adds approx 4 lbs.

11) Atlee Dodge float fittings, adds approx. 4 lbs.

12) Insulated interior .016 panels (insulation), adds approx 3 lbs.

13) Atlee Dodge long step, adds approx. 4 lbs.

14) Extended lower baggage, adds approx 5 lbs.

15) Upper baggage with exterior door, adds approx 3 lbs.

16) Firman belly pod, adds approx. 20 lbs.

17) Extended leading edges (no longer approved), adds 6 lbs.

18) H.D. muffler, adds approx 3 lbs.

19) Rear seat heat, adds approx 3 lbs.

20) Atlee Dodge 2" defroster kit, adds approx 2 lbs.

21) Pawnee tail spring, adds approx 1/2 lb.

Well, that is 116 lbs right there. I would try to offset this additional weight by going with light weight starter, oil cooler, alternator, basic panel etc. My 180 hp Cub did weigh in at 1195 lbs, without oil or fuel and the EWCG was within .06 of the Piper original (11.06 verses the new at 11.00).

The main thing is it is a blast to fly and performs better then anything I've been in or around. Crash

 

[diggler]

delete

 

[SuperCub MD]

Bear-bones Cub w/ elect (PA-18 150....0-320 pumping 187 ponies), big tires, stock everything else, and weight striped where posible w/o taking away strength. Metal interior to make it easier to wash-out the blood.

True weight, on a scale; 1067lbs.

+++++++++++++++

PA-11, 0-235 108/115hp, no elect, cub tail (PA-18), cub flaps (PA-18), cub gear, cub wing tanks....true weight 863lbs. Flys great light, put some weight in, and it suffers.

good flying...>Byron

Well, my Cubs weigh around what Lukes do, certified scales, no BS. Luke claims to be from someplace called Dillingham Alaska, perhaps this Dillingham place does not qualify as "real Alaska"?, don't know.

I just happen to be doing the W&B on a couple Cubs tonight, and have done a lot of these over the years. A stock 50's - 60's era PA18-150 DOES REALLY WEIGH around 1010, and the CG is usually about a foot aft of the LE. You must understand what these Cubs did, and more importantly didn't have. No radios, no extra tubes in the fuselage, stock wings with LIGHT Piper ribs, no heavy duty landing gear, or heavy duty anything, 8X4's wheels and brakes, and a small tailwheel, fabric headliner.....ect, ect... The one I just added up weighs 1098 with big tires, extended baggage and headliner, extra lights for night spraying, and a HD electrical system to power the lights.

The lightest Super Cubs I've seen have come from the midwest. They sprayed in the summer, and were used for aerial hunting during the winter. They have nothing they do not need to fly. The fabric is stretched on, taped with straight edge tapes only were needed, a light coat of silver shot only on the top surfaces, and one coat of white shot on the whole thing with a couple red strips and #'s on the side. These Cubs worked everyday. There owners used them to earn a living and feed their families. They operated for thousands of hours at gross weights that most modern Cub pilots only dream about, and they did it while manuvering hard, and never got more than 50 feet above the ground.

I'm not disrespecting the Alaska Bushpilots, certainly tough flying, and should be respected. But I don't think the Alaskan pilots should disrespect the lower 48 Cub drivers. The Alaskan pilots I personnally have met and know have enough flying experience to respect their fellow pilots, irregardless of where they are from or what they do.

Different Cubs are built for different purposes, and it should be no great shock that they are different weights.

PS, Charles, Having seen your attention to detail, I have no doubt that your Cub is light, certified scales or not. Hope to see you and your Cub at the fly in this year?