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PA-12 verses PA-12 super cruiser

eslboat

eslboat

Registered User
Northern Michigan
Can anyone tell me the specific differences between the PA-12 and the PA-12 super cruiser ? Trade a plane data performance lists different performance for the two but I can't find what is specifically different between the two . Any help from the pros would be great !
 
The PA-12 was originally the "Super Cruiser".

Your best reference for different engine/mod combinations are on this site.

You may have been mistaken for the original J-5 "Cub Cruiser"




Tim
 
I always thought the J5 was a cruiser and the PA-12 was the super cruiser. TAP does have two listed (my guess is a mistake). It looks like the difference on the TAP pages is that they list the engine of what they designate a PA-12 Cruiser as having an O-235 while what they designate the PA-12 Super Cruiser has an O-235-C. TAP also has a different gross listed for the two 1500 vs. 1750. Looking at the Geneology of a Piper poster, I also don't see any indication of a different designation of a pa-12. I'll double check in Legend Aloft later tonight if no one has a better answer.
 
RRB-

You do have a point. There were three different planes with the "cruiser" name that were mass produced:

J-5A Cont. 75 HP GW of 1450 Cub Cruiser
J-5C Lycoming 100HP 0-235 GW 1550
PA-12 Lycoming 100-115 0-235 GW of 1750 Super Cruiser

There is not a big difference between the J-5C and PA-12. The pa-12 parts book says "super cruiser" my orange J-5 books say "Cub Cruiser"

Tim
 
It can get even more confusing when an ad lists a Cherokee 140 Cruiser as simple a "Cruiser" and mixes the ad with the taildraggers. The 1974 Cruiser gets listed as a 1947.

Pat
 
All PA-12's are Super Cruisers. The early PA-12 Super Cruisers had a 0-235-C 100 HP engine and the later models had a 0 235C-1 108 HP engine. That may be the reason for two different performance figures. I had a 100 HP PA-12 for about 12 years and sold it. I recently purchased a J-3 converted to a PA-11 with an 0200 in it on floats. I would like to have my PA-12 back. Jim
 
J-5 Cub Cruiser only two made.

J-5A- Cub Cruiser 75 Hp A-75-8 Cont. engine. 80, 85 and 90 horse were added to the ATC but did not come from the factory that way. 1450 pounds legal gross.(Mil L-4F)

J-5B Cub Cruiser, with Geared GO-145-62, 75 horse lycoming engine. (Mil L-4G) 1450 pounds legal gross.

J-5C Cub Cruiser, @ 100 HP 0-235, 235-b and 235-2, Lycoming engines. (Mil HE-1 and AE-1s) 1550 pounds legal gross.

PA-12 Super Cruiser (ATC-380) the first engines were @100 HP Lyc. 0-235-C, and later 0-235-C1, (115 hp for take off and 108 hp in cruise) 1750 legal gross

PA-14 FAMILY CRUISER, 0-235-C1 115 hp. 1850 legal gross.


xx
 
WOW that was all great info so very fast, I love it ! I just purchased a 47 PA-12 that I plan on rebuilding and put on floats I just want to make sure I know what I'm working with . Alex ,TAP also lists 2 different gross weights for the 12 and the super cruiser so I just want to get it right ? rrb what is the Legend Aloft and what info can be had from it , is it something I should have? Thanks for everyone's help !!!
 
A Legend Aloft is a Piper history book, lots of general info on the evolution of the company, models and prototypes. Not very much technical data but a great source of history. PM me if you want additional information on author and where I found it, I don't have the info with me now.
 
I think the biggest difference in GW of the J5 and PA 12's is the wing spars. I believe all the J5's were wood spars versus aluminum spars in the 12's. I've heard there are no legal float options for the J5 because of the wooden spars. Anyone know for sure??
85 Mike
 
85Mike said:
I've heard there are no legal float options for the J5 because of the wooden spars. Anyone know for sure??
85 Mike
Click to expand...

Edos are approved for the J-5C. The J-5C had both metal and wood spars, whatever the piper factory had in stock.

The wood spar J-5 wings are very similar to an aluminum spar wing. The reason they are not approved on floats is probably not because of the wood spar, there are plenty of champs and J-3s on floats with wood spars.

I have paperwork for a J-5A on aqua 1500 floats.

Tim
 
I used to have a J-5A that was really mostly PA-12 parts. Including metal spars and a 0-290D engine. At one time somebody tried to make it a J-5C. And for a couple of years the FAA seemed to be bying it back in the 1950s. Then suddenly the paperwork went back to being a J-5A. So the legal gross was reduced again. Although it flew fine at 1700 plus..


Erik:

FAA A-780 states;

Maximum weight on WHEELS/SKIS: Normal Cat: 1750 lbs
Utility Cat: 1500 lbs

Maximum Weight on Floats: PA-12S: 1838 lbs
 
PA-12

Not to get techincal but, er Piper Cub Cruiser (J-5) and Piper Cub Super Cruiser (PA-12)

Try telling that smarty pants in the Warrior that he is flying a Cherokee, and then check the POH which calls it a Piper Cherokee Warrior.

Remember, pride goes before a fall... :D
 
PA-12

Thanks everyone for clearing up the confusion!! I now know I have a Super Cruiser (PA-12) . Now I can start looking for a set of edo 2000's for it. Anybody know of a set laying around ? Does anyone know if rigging from a Super Cub will fit on a 12 ?
 
I believe the gear is different between a J5 and a PA12. The Cruiser has the Cub style cabane gear, the Super Cruiser has the Pacer style gear. But some upgraded 12's have had PA18 gear installed, along with 320's, flaps, etc.
The orphan is the J4-- it has Aeronca style oleo-strut main gear, and a weird forward mounted tailwheel.

Rooster
 
If memory serves me correct. The 12S was for factory seaplanes. I could be wrong though. I was once before.

Bill
 
In between starting typing and finishing Bill beat me to it. My answer is the same as his.

Interesting though is the dates in the TC, I just glanced at it, it looked like the date was August 11, 1948. Didn't Piper only manufacture the PA-12 in 1946 and 1947?
 
And who is the TC Holder as stated in the TC:

FS 2003 Corporation
709 Dupont Street, P. O. Box 1678
Bellingham, WA 98227-1678
 
That's the person who purchased it from Piper a while back. I think FortySix12 has talked to him a couple of times, maybe he's got more info on the TC owner. The rumor I had heard was that plans fell apart after purchase of the TC, but it's a rumor as far as I know.
 
plocht said:
And who is the TC Holder as stated in the TC:

FS 2003 Corporation
709 Dupont Street, P. O. Box 1678
Bellingham, WA 98227-1678
Click to expand...

FS stands for Flight Systems, or it used to anyway, the person who bought the TC for the 12, I think got the J5 as well and maybe others, his name is John Mitchell as I recall, he opereated out of a field in western lower Canada, begins with a K, think of it later anyway he sold cub parts under another name and don't remember the exact business name, Cub parts or similar name. He was a hard guy to get a hold of at one time. Around four years ago they had a booth at OSH promoting the new SuperCruiser, One was built and certificated by a man in Idaho or Utah( family of Albertsons grocery chain) ,of which he paid for all the engineering to get it certified as I understood it. The plane was yellow. I understand it went for less than a 100K, heavy though, like 1380. Thats what I know.
 
PA-12S Super Cruiser

My PA-12S 1948
O-320

Empty 1080.0
Gross 1838.0 PA-12S per DOT/FAA 3PCSM 8/11/1948

This A/C has seaplane doors
VG's
Flaps
six other airframe STC's

It is not on floats
 
My old J-5A-125hp that had been converted with lots of PA-12 and PA-18 parts, weighed 1008 pounds empty with oil. It had an electrical system and lights.


xx
 
I'm going to lighten ship a tad bit more on the next annual.

PA-12S O-320 Flaps

I don't know what is expected of my plane because I'm still new, however with half tanks and solo she will climb at 1100 ft/min 2450 RPM at 60 mph.

I was at 10K and the A/C was climbing at over 500 ft/min -- it was about 25 degrees F.

I can get off the ground w/ positive climb in a couple hundred feet, two notches of flaps, 35 degrees F and 125 MSL half tanks, solo.

I don't know if this is the norm because I really haven't had the opportunity to compare it to other machines and I'm still pushing the envelope as I'm getting used to flying this plane
 
CRANMAN said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think John Mitchell also holds the TC for the PA-14.
Click to expand...

Correct - and he also holds the J-5 and L-14 (yep L-14) as well.
 
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