PA-12 Pre-Purchase Inspection advice needed...............

[Supertronic]

In a couple weeks I am having a pre-purchase inspection performed on a PA-12 (First Cub). The mechanic seems to know the cubs well. I am looking for advice on things I should check or be aware of when we do this. I'm sure there are some of you that have had some "Gotchyas" and would like to avoid these as much as possible Any and all information would be very helpful and very appreciated!

Plane information:
2500 TT
450 SMOH O-235C1
Old restoration in 1977 (Always hangared since)
Pretty much stock

Cheers,
Bob

 

[Arctic Flyer]

yo

Have the fuel system checked out. The original (tin) 19 gallon wing tanks and the header tank will have to be replaced sooner or later and the cheapest replacement tanks will run you about $1400.00.

Even if the struts and forks are in decent shape, they will need special attention if they are not the lifetime versions. This is OK, but you need to know it going in. Every XX hours the forks need to be magnafluzed and the struts need to be removed, filled with oil, blessed with a mechanics magic wand and reinstalled. That's OK, but the inspection takes time, and time is money.

The original PA-12 tail spring is narrow (1 1/4") which is probably OK, but most are replaced with the 1 1/2" pawnee tail spring.

Good luck, and I hope it works out. Us lower than life PA-12 owners need to stick together in the high performance world of Supercubs.

 

[Supertronic]

tgorn - Thanks for the input. Yes the struts are original as well as the brakes. These are 2 things that I plan on changing in the newr future if things work out.

 

[Speedo]

Search for the "what breaks?" thread. You'll find a list of things to check into.

 

[flybynite]

Hi Bob

Where is the plane located? Does it come with a hangar ? Mine is "in process" right now & I could show you some common problem areas if you are interested. My plane's (mostly) at LVN.

Cheers

Wayne

 

[Supertronic]

Wayne - Thanks for the post. I will send you a PM. I located a hangar at FCM.

One thing I forgot to mention is that 2 years ago the motor was completely torn down per the AD for a prop strike. The motor was supposedly idling when it hit and there was no damage done to the engine. The engine was also clean with no corrosion.


Thanks again for the posts and the PMs!

 

[munro]

Not to be a nay sayer but if there has never been any major metal replaced in the fuselage you stand a very good chance of having corrosion in the tubing...from the inside out. These are 50+ year old planes and were built with mild steel. Replacement fuselages are available but you are looking at 15-20K to do that. Punch test punch test the tubes. It will be a heart breaker if you find it after you own the plane.
Strong emotions come out when a punch goes through a soft spot in your aframe. attention to bottom of clusters.

 

[PA-12 Lover]

I agree with Munro. My 12 had been rebuilt twice due to prior accidents, however, when a "friend" bent the fuselage during a hard engine out off field landing, the fuselage tubes were discovered to contain significant corrosion. I am now the proud owner of a new fuselage. Much time and money later. Be careful. I still love my 12.

 

[Supertronic]

PA12Lover2 & munro,

No need to worry about being a 'nay sayer'. I've heard of issues like this and these are the type of responses I'm looking for on this post.

The plane has definitely been hangared since 1977 and I believe the previous owner since 1955 did hangar it also but not sure. There have only been 4 owners since new. Maybe being hangared doesn't always prevent internal corrosion? I did look at the tubing under the tail and externally it looks great.....no signs of rust at all.

 

[PA-12 Lover]

Was it ever on floats? I also had significant corrosion on my tail surfaces. This was evident when they were removed as part of the pre purchase inspection. Seller replaced for me. Mine had been on straight floats and had spent alot of time outside. Hangaring is always good.

 

[Supertronic]

PA12Lover2

I don't think it was ever on floats. There were no float fittings on the plane.

 

[Yard Dart]

Tail rust in tail, pitted tubes, last three i rebuilt.

 

[munro]

I would strongly advise spending the extra money and time to find a plane that has a new fuselage. I've been intimate with close to a dozen 12's and 14's and have never seen an original airframe that did not have significant corrosion. Also the 0-235 I believe you will find parts to be much more expensive than the industry standard 0-320. 1977 was a long time ago.

 

[behindpropellers]

Re: PA-12 Pre-Purchase Inspection advice needed.............

In a couple weeks I am having a pre-purchase inspection performed on a PA-12 (First Cub). The mechanic seems to know the cubs well. I am looking for advice on things I should check or be aware of when we do this. I'm sure there are some of you that have had some "Gotchyas" and would like to avoid these as much as possible Any and all information would be very helpful and very appreciated!

Plane information:
2500 TT
450 SMOH O-235C1
Old restoration in 1977 (Always hangared since)
Pretty much stock

Cheers,
Bob

Bob-

How much are you paying and how long until you plan on rebuilding?

Tim

 

[Supertronic]

How much are you paying and how long until you plan on rebuilding?

Totally off topic - Price isn't set in stone but I'm thinking we will end up in the mid 30s. I plan on flying it for a few years and then finding out what mods I want to do and recover the plane. Obviously when the motor needs an overhaul it will probably end up being converted to 150 HP.....if I even wait that long![/quote]

 

[behindpropellers]

How much are you paying and how long until you plan on rebuilding?

Totally off topic - Price isn't set in stone but I'm thinking we will end up in the mid 30s. I plan on flying it for a few years and then finding out what mods I want to do and recover the plane. Obviously when the motor needs an overhaul it will probably end up being converted to 150 HP.....if I even wait that long!

[/quote]

Bob-

If you are going to do this I would suggest adding up what you would like to do to it now. There are 100s of ways to do it but just be careful how much you spend in the initial purchase. The initial price will make or break you when it comes time to rebuild. Lets say you buy it for $35k.

$35K initial
$10.5K Fuselage
$1.5K in parts cleaning, primer, misc cleanup
$4k In covering materials
$5k 0320 Conversion
$3k flaps
$2K fuel system revision
$2K STC's
$15K 0320

So now your $35k plane is a pile of ~$85K worth of parts, so depending on if you are doing the work yourself....

The list can go on. Just figure twice the cost you are guessing for the rebuild and at least twice the time for your estimate on that too.

I have seen two PA-12s in flying condition go for $25k in the past year.

Just make sure you put everything in perspective, that small piece of rusty tubing can turn into a total rebuild.

Im rebuilding/remanufacturing a 1941 J5A that I thought was going to be an easy project.

Tim



[/b]

 

[behindpropellers]

How much are you paying and how long until you plan on rebuilding?

Totally off topic - Price isn't set in stone but I'm thinking we will end up in the mid 30s. I plan on flying it for a few years and then finding out what mods I want to do and recover the plane. Obviously when the motor needs an overhaul it will probably end up being converted to 150 HP.....if I even wait that long!

[/quote]

Bob-

If you are going to do this I would suggest adding up what you would like to do to it now. There are 100s of ways to do it but just be careful how much you spend in the initial purchase. The initial price will make or break you when it comes time to rebuild. Lets say you buy it for $35k.

$35K initial
$10.5K Fuselage
$1.5K in parts cleaning, primer, misc cleanup
$4k In covering materials
$5k 0320 Conversion
$3k flaps
$2K fuel system revision
$2K STC's
$15K 0320

So now your $35k plane is a pile of ~$85K worth of parts, so depending on if you are doing the work yourself....

The list can go on. Just figure twice the cost you are guessing for the rebuild and at least twice the time for your estimate on that too.

I have seen two PA-12s in flying condition go for $25k in the past year.

Just make sure you put everything in perspective, that small piece of rusty tubing can turn into a total rebuild.

Im rebuilding/remanufacturing a 1941 J5A that I thought was going to be an easy project.

Tim

p.s. if you do plan on rebuilding it, order a new fuselage 2 years before you tear the plane down. You will be able to get all of your panels, baggage, all the small details that take time done.

 

[Supertronic]

Tim - I understand your point. If I was to buy the plane to mod right away, then no it wouldn't be worth it. I'm not concerned about that right now.

From your post, it appears your biggest concern would be a rusty fuselage. That's the type of things I'm looking for. Anything to help elimnate a future 'Gotchya'. I know it's a gamble but I want to be able to check as much as possible.

It already has flaps.

 

[fishcruiser]

I have seen 25 year old Super Cubs and C180s with lots more rust problems than a 47 PA-12. It sounds like a nice plane as is. I would not only have it inspected but make sure it comes with annual.. Then enjoy it. If problems come up with annual/inspection then negotiate price.

By the way a stock bird is mighty fine; light, good fuel consumption, and just nice to fly.
Dave

 

[JMBreitinger]

The most knowlegable guy around here is Jim Drometer. He owns two PA-12s. He did pre-buys for me on three airplanes, disqualifying the first two. I bought the third. In this part of the country, you would be nuts to buy one without having him go through it. You can reach him at: (952) 873-6659 or Drometer@aol.com. He is a good guy.