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PA-12 empty weight

M

MT12

FRIEND
Montana
OK my curiosity is killing me. I have searched old threads and not found much real data. I would like to do a poll on actual empty weight of pa-12's, and by actual I mean cubs that have really been weighed within say the last 10 years. If you report your weight and some of the main mod's you have (flaps, engine, gear, tires, gross weight increase, etc.) I will post the results in some sort of graph or chart. I did find info in old threads from Colorguns and Nanook so thanks in advance for those earlier confessions. doug
 
1185 lbs. fresh rebuild last year

0-320 b2b.
Crosswinds conversion
flaps
23 gallon Dakota cub tanks
pa-18 tail feathers
skylight
pa-18 seat
3" extended gear
aoss
29" bushwheels
 
1094 lbs. -- Rebuild completed Dec. 2013

O-320 no dash# -- Kenmore
standard tanks (Wag-Aero alum.)
flaps
PA-18 gear - 3" ext.
PA-18 tail
PA-18 seat
31" ABW
Niagara alum. oil cooler
Sky-tec starter
B&C lightweight alternator - accessory drive 20A
Odyssey battery
LED taxi/landing lights
lightweight floors -- fiberglass honeycomb type material, don't actually know what its called
kydex interior panels
Becker mini-com
Funkwerk mini-txp
"wooden" prop (Catto)

* One of my biggest goals was to keep it light, but I couldn't believe my eyes as we added up the numbers. I weighed myself on a Weight Watchers scale and all 3 pads were either right on or within a pound.
 
1239# just built

180 hp all light weight components
Dakota wings (round tip), flaps
skylight
-18 gear 3" extentions 850 tires
-18 tail
borer upper & lower baggage
crosswind GW increase
Seaplane door right side only
-18 front seat
aluminun interior
vfr panel
 
1954 Empty weight........................................939 #

Removed wood prop installed McCauley E.W............ 949 #

1957 Installed Narco radio, IF receiver , turn + bank,ROC, venturi and Sensenich prop EW........970.5 #

2000 Removed Narco installed Garmin nav com and intercom E.W.......................964#

Thru Jan 2015 Installed, Scott tail wheel, Landing/Taxi light, PA 18 3" extended gear, Cleveland wheels, and brakes
8:00 tires, Lycoming O-320 McKenzie STC, lightweight starter, normal alternator, Sutton exhaust, Airwolf oil filter, Niagara oil cooler,
Odyssey battery, Becker radio, JPI 450 fuel gauge, UMA 3 in 1 gauge, True Blue USB port, Air Gizmo/ mini I pad/with stratus
nav system, ACK 406 ELT

Removed turn and bank, ROC gauge, 121.5 ELT, Garmin nav com and dual oil temp/oil pressure gauge and of course Lycoming 235 with stock exhaust.

All else stock, no flaps, with original tail feathers. EW.........................1101.2 #..........Rod Weighed on scale
 
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I figure I better bare my soul too:

1149#
0-320
pa-18 tail feathers and trim system
flaps
original: gear;gas tanks; starter; oil cooler; generator, battery
sky light, 'x' brace, pa-14 cathedral
850's on Clevelands
aluminum interior panels.
borer prop
Garmin SL40, txp, 406 elt, 3 place intercom.

Keep those responses coming, this is very interesting
 
1200#
0-320 Kenmore STC
Borer prop
3" extended -18 gear
31" Bushwheels
Extended baggage
Madras droops
Underseat battery
Light wt alternator
Rear mounted oil cooler
Stock front seat
Original bungee rack still there
Comm, Xponder, ELT
 
1300#
Dakota Cub wings, fuel tanks, flaps
PA-18 tail feathers
3" heavy duty extended PA-18 style gear
safety cables
31" Bushwheels + baby Bushwheel
extended baggage
skylight
plexiglass door
O-360 engine - Crosswinds conversion
skytec starter & light weight alternator
VGs
heavy old battery
aluminum under-seat storage on front & back seats
plywood back seat
VFR panel

weight measured (actually weighed, not calculated) in 2012 when the engine was installed & all of the above included
 
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It would help if you'd also note whether the weight you cite is calculated or actually weighed after major mods. A calculated weight after an engine change seems a bit sketchy to me, though maybe legal.

MTV
 
1264 lbs weighed on scales in 2012 because a neighbor had some handy

O-320 160 hp
long engine mount
Borer prop
original tanks
flaps
PA-18 gear - standard length
safety cables
PA-18 tail
PA-18 seat
31 bushwheels
3200 tailwheel
Niagara alum. oil cooler
Sky-tec starter
B&C lightweight alternator
Odyssey battery under seat
Remote compass in right wing
aluminum floors
Aluminum interior panels
Very extended baggage with oversized upper access door
Gross weight increase
aluminum rear underseat storage
fiberglass wing tips


things i would think about changing:
no remote compass
rear seat and seat back are very heavy plywood and extra stuff... Explore carbon option
extended baggage door is very heavy.... Keep size make it lighter duty or carbon
Lots of aluminum in baggage.... Explore lighter materials especially for extended portion
Explore aluminum door...current door with full lexan is heavy
fuel tank upgrade to wag aero
add cargo pod
 
Would be cool to know some of the performance numbers with these weights. Take off & landing roll. Stall. Of course it's not just weight that affects these numbers. But would nice to see while I'm restoring a PA-12.
 
I just became a member of this site to jump in on this conversation. I frequently come across posts talking about what a great performer the PA-12 is when it is kept light, but I don't have a real feel for when light becomes heavy. I'm am currently considering the purchase of a PA-12 with an O-235 C1 weighing it at 1120 - I thought that was kind of heavy, but it's starting to look average based on this thread. Any thoughts?
 
Where will you be flying your new PA-12? When I bought my PA-12, it had an O-235 & weighed about 1100 lbs. in Utah in the summer, the density altitude is upwards of 7500 ft. I had to circle to get up to pattern altitude. The O-235 didn't cut it for my location, but it did make me a better pilot. If you are at sea level, the O-235 may perform just fine. On the other hand, there is no substitute for horsepower.
 
Shepherd said:
I just became a member of this site to jump in on this conversation. I frequently come across posts talking about what a great performer the PA-12 is when it is kept light, but I don't have a real feel for when light becomes heavy. I'm am currently considering the purchase of a PA-12 with an O-235 C1 weighing it at 1120 - I thought that was kind of heavy, but it's starting to look average based on this thread. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Welcome! I'm a newbie myself. And I'm curious what others answer. But I think that may be a question for a different thread?
 
90% of my flying will be over Ohio for now. I have my concerns about the horsepower of the engine (especially with regard to my 1200' home strip) - But for the purposes of this thread, I want to make sure that 1120 lbs isn't so heavy that the plane will be a dog in flight. Obviously lighter is better - but how will the responsiveness be at this weight relative to other 12s?
 
Shepherd said:
I just became a member of this site to jump in on this conversation. I frequently come across posts talking about what a great performer the PA-12 is when it is kept light, but I don't have a real feel for when light becomes heavy. I'm am currently considering the purchase of a PA-12 with an O-235 C1 weighing it at 1120 - I thought that was kind of heavy, but it's starting to look average based on this thread. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Why is it heavy? With the light engine, there must be a hundred pounds of stuff you can remove...or just put the 150hp engine on and live with it...
 
1182 on scales. 0320, flaps, extended heavy duty pa18 gear. Extended baggage, atlee dodge tanks. A bunch more stuff. On 8.50's for now.
 
Shepherd said:
90% of my flying will be over Ohio for now. I have my concerns about the horsepower of the engine (especially with regard to my 1200' home strip) - But for the purposes of this thread, I want to make sure that 1120 lbs isn't so heavy that the plane will be a dog in flight. Obviously lighter is better - but how will the responsiveness be at this weight relative to other 12s?
Click to expand...

1120 is WAY to heavy for a PA 12 with an O-235. Had a J5c and it was in the low 950ish and it performed well.
 
Currently have an exp 2+2 which is basically a PA-12, only 6" wider at the shoulders.

Actual weight is 1045.

0-320 WD
31" BW
84-37 Catto prop
3" gear
Minimum ppanel hand held radio
headerless fuel ssystem fabric interior.
wood spar metal ribs, round tip wings,
flaps extended cord-wise
welded in firewall thrustline, flys slow

At sea level gets off short, and lands short. Still breaking it in so haven't flown loaded yet...actually I never drink and fly...hA....
 
It is NOT always about weight and horsepower---The skill level of the "NUT" holding the stick has much to do with performance---My 12 is at 1084 empty---0-320 --150 HP with flaps--18 tail --18 trim-- sky tec starter--original gear/brakes --74/53 sensenich---it does fine for me but most of my adventures are near 900 MSL but does fine in the Idaho mountains also and I am sure it would perform better in the hands of someone with Windy's skills. ( I've watched her land at higher elevations and only uses slightly more runway than a Carbon Cub)
 
Nanook - I will contact the seller tomorrow to look at the W&B and see what might be available to remove. Is there a resource on this forum for removing weight from this type?

Geezer - Regarding the skills... I don't much time. I'm trying to buy a plane that will help me develop those skills.

Ron - I'm open to a J-5. I like that they are lighter than the 12s and don't seem to need as much power, I just haven't found a contender yet.
 
Shepherd said:
Nanook - I will contact the seller tomorrow to look at the W&B and see what might be available to remove. Is there a resource on this forum for removing weight from this type?

Geezer - Regarding the skills... I don't much time. I'm trying to buy a plane that will help me develop those skills.

Ron - I'm open to a J-5. I like that they are lighter than the 12s and don't seem to need as much power, I just haven't found a contender yet.
Click to expand...

Where are you located...a buddy up here may be selling one...mine went to the east coast and I heard it was for sale...
it's N number is 68931. A great flying little cub.
 
1302 CG 13.00"
Charlie center
0-360 A2A
Short mount swing out
Borer prop
Light weight starter n alternator
Flaps
Extended wing tips
VG
Balanced tail
Extended baggage upper
Removable back seat
Cross bar
18 adjustable seat
Sky light
Ceconite with Ranthane
3" extended gear
safety cables
31" ABW
Cleveland brakes
3200 tail wheel
Gar Aero wide fork
Plexiglass covered door
Garmin 550 GPS
Square windshield
G35 battery
Aluminum 18 gal tanks
PA18 sight gauges
Steves gasolator
New wiring
Shoulder harness front seat
King 135A
Narco transponder

Colorguns






 
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Super Cruiser N3007M just weighed on digital scales, 0320 n 18 tail feathers with old starter, Gen n 35 amp battery ,no other mods weighed 1112 lbs.... So could easily be down around 1075 with a little tinkering.
 
Nope MT, just the Kenmore STC for 0320, 18 tail feathers, everything else is stock Cruiser except for a skylight.
 
After about the first week of reporting, I have summarized some of the results of those that reported in and of other PA-12's I had personal knowledge of or that I found on this website on other posts. So here goes with a bit of a summary and I'll see if I can upload an excel spread sheet as well.

So we had 17 planes reported on, some didn't include info on some mods, so they weren't included in those totals. For example 15 of the 17 planes mentioned flaps, of those 15 answers 12 or 80% had flaps...

Weight Range: 1084 - 1302
Average weight: 1186
Average weight o O-290's (1): 1099
Average weight of O-320 (13): 1171
Average weight of O-360 (3): 1280

6% are O-290's; 76% are O-320's; 18% are O-360's.

80% reported having flaps
59% reported having some sort of light weight starter, alternator, or oil cooler
24% reported having a gross weight increase

Gear: 21% standard 12 gear
21% standard 18 gear
58% 3" extended 18 gear

Tires: 7% 8.00's
29% 8.50's
14% 29" ABW
58% 31" ABW
 

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