PA-12 basket case

[JimC]

How much might a disassembled PA-12 be worth? Most, perhaps all of it, appears to be there (I've not found the horizontal stabilizers, elevators, and rudder yet). It's on PA-14 gear (to accomodate the PA-12 gear AD). Log books appear to be there, though I don't know yet if they are intact and complete. There are four O-235 basket cases and one McCauley O-235 prop. Also an early O-320 narrow deck basket case, though I've not seen the carb or the mags yet.

Am interested in the value (seperately) of the 12, the O-235's, the O-235 prop, and the O-320. The airframe and one of the wings appear perhaps to have been in a ground loop, and the airframe may be very slightly twisted (hard to tell with the airframe suspended from the ceiling).
JimC

 

[Steve Pierce]

The price of admission. Don't you have enough projects Jim or are you wanting to sell one. :lol:

 

[behindpropellers]

Have something similar in the hanger here. I hope to unload it sometime this winter.

Tim

 

[JimC]

.... Don't you have enough projects Jim or are you wanting to sell one.

Neither, Steve. I'm not in the market for this one, and my 12 isn't for sale. A friend inherited a 12 basket case from his Dad and wants to sell it. He has no idea what it is worth (I don't either -- my 12 was given to me). There are four O-235's of various denominations and states of dissassembly, and an O-320 narrow deck (no suffix) completely dissassembled. Also one O-235 McCauley prop 7248 that looks like it may be in fairly good shape.
JimC

 

[Steve Pierce]

I know where there is one in a barn close by. Widow wants to sell but I'm not sure either. This one has an O-320 too.

 

[JimC]

Steve, if you don't know, I don't know who would.

To drift the thread a little bit, the project I'd really like to do (if I can find an extra $30K lying around) would be to build a full scale, photorealistic replica of a pterosaur called Quetzalcoatlus species (not northropi, the big one with the 11 meter wingspan, but rather the little one with the 4.8 meter wingspan). The last one of thse I did was a 60% scale replica of a pterosaur called Anhanguera piscator (the downside was that it cost $557K, and I think I can beat that).
JimC

 

[mike mcs repair]

To drift the thread a little bit, the project I'd really like to do
JimC

wow that is a big drift......

 

[cubscout]

JimC, yea big drift, maybe start a new Paleoornothology thread. That might bring Dr. John McMasters out of thewoodwork...

Thanks. cubscout

 

[NimpoCub]

Several cheap projects in the COPA paper.
All the usual overpriced ones too.

 

[JimC]

Cubscout,
John was a friend of mine. He passed away February 13, 2008. I last worked with him in the spring of 2005. Losing both him and Paul MacCready within a short span is a terrible loss to those who are interested in animal flight and education. I enjoyed exchanging thoughts with those guys both during meetings and during trips to and from various airports.
JimC

 

[cubscout]

JimC, I thought you'd been around him, by some of the topics you address, but more by the way you approach the problems: I admire both.

John and I were in grad school at Purdue in late '60's. He was teaching the Sr. Design course, and had picked man-powered flight (now human powered). I wasn't in the aero department, but did a bunch of library research on the topic, found a lot of material John was not aware of, so audited the class.

We wound up presenting a paper on the topic at the OSTIV conference in Alpine TX in '70, coinciding with World Soaring Championships, and again at MIT in '72. John did all the real work and technical analysis, but I'm a passable technical writer. Paul was in the front row, and asked some really insightful questions, but we had no idea who he was at the time, not till the banquet...

I learned many great lessons from John, especially about the approach to problem solving, and integrating design and engineering. For example, he'd work the first two three cuts at the maths on a 6" plastic sliderule, which gave him a tactile feel for which parameter was driving the equation, then apply effort to the big drivers, a crucial lesson in HPF. I use input/output equations these days a lot (Energy Conservation Engineer/Manager in Denver area) Viz.: in most powered craft, drag reduction yields better result than just more thrust, so lighter powerplants, less fuel/weight, etc. I can really see his mark on the later Boeing commercial types.

We kind of lost touch the last few years, but I think of his lessons often.

We ought to chat some time about this stuff; don't know if some of the topics might warrant sc.org postings.

Thanks. cubscout

 

[JimC]

Cub,
My address is
Jim Cunningham
Cunningham Engineering Assoc.
578 Whittenburg Drive
Collierville, TN 38017

my phone is Nine-Oh-One 268-9304
and my e-mail is
jrccea at bellsouth.net

I met both Paul and John through a mutual friend, Dr. Wann Langston, Jr. with the University of Texas at Austin who introduced me to Paul. I think I met John through Paul, but its been long enough ago now that I've forgotten which of the two introduced me to John.

Paul was the honoree at the February 1999 SSA (Soaring Society of America) conference in Knoxville, so he asked me to attend and do an hour talk on Quetzalcoatlus northropi and Quetzalcoatlus species flight and biomechanics (Paul built a 5.5 meter span half scale replica called QN, a flying, flapping, photorealistic emulation of northropi for an IMAX film back in 1983 (funded by Sam Johnson of Johnson Wax) with Wann as the principal advisor (Wann is the one who named Quetzalcoatlus). As an aside, this was the first presentation describing the quadrupedal launch used by pterosaurs.

I agree that this conversation probably needs to move off-forum, and I'd be happy to continue it. It really is a small world, isn't it.
JimC