PA-12- Anything That Should Be Done

[CDraper-SDAirService]

SD Air Service, Is Currently rebuilding a PA-12 crash (floats) the craft already has a 160hp but we will need a new prop etc. the fuselage is completely torn down and one wing is trash and struts should be inspected, The aircraft already has flaps and extended gear. Basically wondering what we should recommend to the owner(who happens to be a very close friend). What mods, STCs. Tips? Owner has kicked around the idea of dual doors, but wants to make a "Bush Machine". Extended Baggage ? Baggage Doors? Bigger Flaps? This will be a certified aircraft.Wing Mods?
***The Aircrafts Floats were destroyed by the prop and were bent in half from the impact, the floats rigging tore into the floats and we responded to the crash with about 1/3 of each float to spare. the fuselage had about 25 bends and the aircraft did in fact spread about 3/8" we used a rope affair to pull it back together. the tail did droop aswell but we jacked it out. The craft has a boxed tail x brace ceiling and the cathedral. Already has super cub trim and controls, *Had a borer Prop.... Also how can I get more info on the long flaps and squared tips?***
-CDraper

 

[CDraper-SDAirService]

Short motor mount. Reverse dogleg. Cub controls. Full flat floor. Removable rear seat tubes. Folding front seat.

I assume these are readily available STC's also, I this aircraft has the swing out mount.

 

[mike mcs repair]

https://goo.gl/photos/PuiR5ha2aBDbkUBS8

https://goo.gl/photos/GRXyyNHPoUik2V44A

 

[MT12]

-pa-18 trim system-no stc but a great mod none the less;
-x brace above the pilot(FA Dodge),
-remove diagonal tube through baggage-replace with pa-14 cathedral brace(dodge);
-seat belt attach point to floor;
-VG's
-Dakota cub fuel selector left/right/off/both
-gross weight increase; top extended baggage (I'm not a fan of the lower baggage nor switching out the torque tube to the -pa-18 style, lots of work with little gain);
-replace battery with Odessey and place under rear seat (don't want to move that CG too far forward thus eliminating the need for a short mount and thus the ugly new cowling);
-install 406 ELT in tail section for weight purposes;
-36" metal belly in rear tail section;
-skylight

search "pa12 modifications" on this site for lots of good threads on this subject

 

[TurboBeaver]

Really the very first thing to look at on a 12 is if it still has the old fuel tanks (tin) or if they have been converted to aluminum ? And just as big an issue as the old tanks leaking is the old gauges hanging out of the bottom of the wings. Alot of times years ago folks would compleately resolder all the seams and convert to 18 gauges .

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[mvivion]

Really the very first thing to look at on a 12 is if it still has the old fuel tanks (tin) or if they have been converted to aluminum ? And just as big an issue as the old tanks leaking is the old gauges hanging out of the bottom of the wings. Alot of times years ago folks would compleately resolder all the seams and convert to 18 gauges .

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X 2. If the plane still has the original terneplate tanks, lose them and replace with Super Cub tanks or Dakota Cub tanks.

MTV

 

[AKCRUISER]

ditto on everything mentioned

Also, an 18 seat (adjustable).


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[Douten]

I like a tail handle on both sides for floats.

 

[Speedo]

If I were rebuilding a -12, in addition to the recommendations above, I think I'd want the left side swing-out window. I found that very handy in my plane. I really like the combination of Bushwheels and AOSS, and for my own plane I'd give that combination a lot of thought if it will go back on wheels at some point. If the right wing has to be rebuilt I'd put another landing and taxi light into it, and install the wig-wag feature. Since the plane was on floats it probably already has lifting tabs - if not, I'd add them. The Sutton exhaust is lighter and eliminates the inspection AD. Inertial reel harnesses would be good if it doesn't already have them.

I had the FA Dodge 30.5 gallon tanks, and I'm not sure I'd go back to them; I never needed the extra range they gave me.

 

[Charlie Longley]

Really the very first thing to look at on a 12 is if it still has the old fuel tanks (tin) or if they have been converted to aluminum ? And just as big an issue as the old tanks leaking is the old gauges hanging out of the bottom of the wings. Alot of times years ago folks would compleately resolder all the seams and convert to 18 gauges .

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I 100% agree on getting rid of the old tin tanks! A good option is putting in stock aluminum tanks. They're relatively cheap. WagAero sells them and will modify them per any STC you provide. (Front outlets, PA18 gauges.) personally I like keeping the stock PA-12 gauges. It helps keep fuel lines out of the cockpit.

 

[moneyburner]

If I had to do mine over, I'd add 24 gallon Dakota tanks; 18 is too small, 30.5 is too big and 24 is JUST RIGHT (for me). The original tin (ternplate) tanks are, ahem; junk. The original fuel system is ridiculous; I simply couldn't reach the Main fuel shutoff except with my foot.
If you decide to go with new 18 gallon aluminum tanks (PMA'd from Wag Aero), make sure you pressure test them before installing; mine leaked like a sieve, but we caught it before installing and welded up the seams properly. Wag-A-Roo didn't respond to my complaint, but YMMV. (I had taken them to Atlee to get fuel fittings and sight glass fittings added, and they simply fixed it without asking, which I very much appreciated).

I would also get rid of the structure under the seat left over from the original PA12 gear and add the PA-18 adjustable seat, if that hasn't been done already, with the seat belt attached to the frame, not the seat, as previously discussed. That mod requires welding, of course. The STC is for a PA-18, but I believe the FSDO's are pretty proactive when it comes to shoulder and seat belts if you're trying to make it better. This is definitely better.

You might give the floor boards a hard look and think about replacing them.

Also:
Vortex generators
Tie-down strut bracket (STC SA02067AK) F.A. Dodge
Lift strut reenforcement (STC SA02021AK) F.A. Dodge
Tail brace assembly (minor alteration; log book entry) F.A. Dodge P/N: 1022-12
Data line from ELT to the panel for connecting to a GPS.
Vented brake boosters
Landing/Taxi lights on both wings, with wig-wag, strobes and LED running lights. And rockets, if you're so inclined.

I already have most of the options MT12 posted, and also recommend them.

 

[mike mcs repair]

FYI. The atlee front -18 seat stc includes the floor tie downs in the drawing and they came with it.


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[moneyburner]

FYI. The atlee front -18 seat stc includes the floor tie downs in the drawing and they came with it.


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Thanks

 

[Hardtailjohn]

We're doing the Dakota Cub tanks, awesome quality!! Ron Sullivan's extended flaps and square tips. We'll get rid of the diagonal in the rear, and do the gross weight increase and X brace the top. Do the vertical tube on the left above the gear. We already have the 18 gear, controls, and control surfaces. I'd highly recommend those. The others here have more PA12 experience than I do, and I'm finding them eager to share their knowledge...that really helps! How bad is the wreck? I was told that the fuselage usually sags a bit and with the mods, it's quite often more economical to go with a new one with all the mods already in there from the start.
Pictures are always good!
John

 

[Hardtailjohn]

Tie-down strut bracket (STC SA02067AK) F.A. Dodge
Lift strut reenforcement (STC SA02021AK) F.A. Dodge

I've been wondering about these two mods..... want to expand on them a bit? I'd like to hear more.
John

 

[mike mcs repair]

I've been wondering about these two mods..... want to expand on them a bit? I'd like to hear more.
John

http://www.fadodge.com/lift-strut-reinforcement-bracket/ this is for if you only use your old original tiedown rings, to help beefup wing/strut attach fitting... so you don't end up with strut still tied to rope but not attached to wing anymore and plane balled up on other side .... old mod, not needed anymore... go with the following instead, and only tie down to the hurricane tie downs then...

http://www.fadodge.com/aircraft-tiedowns/ these ain't letting go....


an visual example of above when wing separates from strut still tied to the ground
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...side-palmer-ak&p=449158&viewfull=1#post449158

 

[stewartb]

Atlee's hurricane tiedown. I add a polished stainless shackle from the boat store to tie the rope. The bolt you see in the picture is to keep it together during install.

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[Gordon Misch]

Atlee's hurricane tiedown. I add a polished stainless shackle from the boat store to tie the rope.

X2 Works great. I did safety wire the shackle so it can't shake loose. Doesn't wiggle in flight though.

 

[Taengler]

I would die penitent the rear spar attachments. If you didn't just replace them


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[CDraper-SDAirService]

Good Question

We're doing the Dakota Cub tanks, awesome quality!! Ron Sullivan's extended flaps and square tips. We'll get rid of the diagonal in the rear, and do the gross weight increase and X brace the top. Do the vertical tube on the left above the gear. We already have the 18 gear, controls, and control surfaces. I'd highly recommend those. The others here have more PA12 experience than I do, and I'm finding them eager to share their knowledge...that really helps! How bad is the wreck? I was told that the fuselage usually sags a bit and with the mods, it's quite often more economical to go with a new one with all the mods already in there from the start.
Pictures are always good!
John

The Aircrafts Floats were destroyed by the prop and were bent in half from the impact, the floats rigging tore into the floats and we responded to the crash with about 1/3 of each float to spare. the fuselage had about 25 bends and the aircraft did in fact spread about 3/8" we used a rope affair to pull it back together. the tail did droop aswell but we jacked it out. The craft has a boxed tail x brace ceiling and the cathedral. Already has super cub trim and controls, *Had a borer Prop.... Also how can I get more info on the long flaps and squared tips?

 

[Tim]

Scott, hang in there, someone will have an answer for you. Good to see you on here

 

[Hardtailjohn]

how can I get more info on the long flaps and squared tips?

I'm sure you saw it in the other thread but Ron Sullivan's number is 907-345-4630. A really good guy and lots of experience.
John

 

[moneyburner]

http://www.fadodge.com/lift-strut-reinforcement-bracket/ this is for if you only use your old original tiedown rings, to help beefup wing/strut attach fitting... so you don't end up with strut still tied to rope but not attached to wing anymore and plane balled up on other side .... old mod, not needed anymore.

Thank you for that correction; I thought they were separate items.