Oops, darn it...
- Thread starter Anne
- Start date
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
His caught fire in flight and made a landing in a field. The crew jumped out but the passengers couldn't.
mvivion
FOUNDER
Bozeman,MT
Well, I got the aircraft type, anyway…..
Paul Heinrich
SPONSOR
Illinois & Wisconsin
To paraphrase: "We are the PILOTS. Checklists? We got no Checklists. We don't need no stinking Checklists!!!"
We all agree that too many aircraft incidents, fatal or not, were easily avoidable had the PIC not relied on his/her self-confidence, memory, and/or familiarity with the airplane. From our very first flying lesson we are taught to ALWAYS use and follow checklists, yet every year we read tragic tales of lives lost and fortunes ruined because the PIC didn't bother. Why?
Just like a roadmap will help you drive across the country, following a checklist will help ensure the pilot and passengers arrive at the destination safely. Maps and checklists help, but they can't if we don't "think" to use them.
Is it because men, traditionally, refuse to pull a car over to ask for directions regardless of how lost they are? Are we genetically wired to believe we, as men, can figure it out without help? Are we afraid of looking weak and/or not in control? The psychology behind our often reckless conduct is fascinating.
No one looks forward to the embarrassment of taking off with the water rudders down or to explaining to St. Peter how you "innocently" killed your closest friends and family by ignoring a simple checklist.
What do all you all suppose causes simple and often lifesaving checklists to go unused?
We all agree that too many aircraft incidents, fatal or not, were easily avoidable had the PIC not relied on his/her self-confidence, memory, and/or familiarity with the airplane. From our very first flying lesson we are taught to ALWAYS use and follow checklists, yet every year we read tragic tales of lives lost and fortunes ruined because the PIC didn't bother. Why?
Just like a roadmap will help you drive across the country, following a checklist will help ensure the pilot and passengers arrive at the destination safely. Maps and checklists help, but they can't if we don't "think" to use them.
Is it because men, traditionally, refuse to pull a car over to ask for directions regardless of how lost they are? Are we genetically wired to believe we, as men, can figure it out without help? Are we afraid of looking weak and/or not in control? The psychology behind our often reckless conduct is fascinating.
No one looks forward to the embarrassment of taking off with the water rudders down or to explaining to St. Peter how you "innocently" killed your closest friends and family by ignoring a simple checklist.
What do all you all suppose causes simple and often lifesaving checklists to go unused?
Waldo M
MEMBER
Finger Lakes area, western NY.
We have a PA-11 that has been in the family for six decades. When my mother was instructing primary students in the airplane, she made a normal checklist for it. The checklist rarely left the seat pocket, the feeling at the time being that a checklist for a Cub was about as necessary as having one for using a shovel.
Fast forward many years to when my daughter was learning to fly. I wanted to instill the habit of using a checklist in her, so I wrote a normal and emergency checklist for the airplane as well as writing an airplane manual. The normal checklist is very brief and designed for use by a pilot with a complete understanding of aircraft systems. It is meant not to be used until the pilot had completed a "flow", performing the tasks to be checked before the checklist was picked up. I did write an expansion of the normal checklist in the manual which explained the actions to be taken as well as limitation values such as maximum RPM drop etc.
Since then, I always use it myself. Long ago, I thought I was bulletproof but have now decided to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible.
One reason checklists are sometimes ignored is that most are poorly written or thought out. Those include some written by manufacturers. Some are written as if they are a training manual used by pilots who have never been in the airplane before. These are used as "do" lists; read the item, perform the action, go back to the list, read the next item, perform the action, and so on. I emphasize that this is not a checklist. It is a "do" list. Professional pilots left that idea behind about fifty years ago.
Non-pilot corporate lawyers have been heavily involved in writing some checklists. This results in a document that is essentially not useable. As an example, one manufacturer of large corporate jets had a 'Before Landing" checklist that was 17 items long. This was meant to be executed after the landing gear is extended, which at an approach speed of 145 knots is not long before touchdown. Its length and complexity was distracting and actually created a hazard.
I encourage pilots that are using checklists like this to use their experience and knowledge to create their own checklist. Keep the 'how to" elements out of it, don't omit a "killer" item, put it in a logical order, and above all, make it BRIEF.
Fast forward many years to when my daughter was learning to fly. I wanted to instill the habit of using a checklist in her, so I wrote a normal and emergency checklist for the airplane as well as writing an airplane manual. The normal checklist is very brief and designed for use by a pilot with a complete understanding of aircraft systems. It is meant not to be used until the pilot had completed a "flow", performing the tasks to be checked before the checklist was picked up. I did write an expansion of the normal checklist in the manual which explained the actions to be taken as well as limitation values such as maximum RPM drop etc.
Since then, I always use it myself. Long ago, I thought I was bulletproof but have now decided to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible.
One reason checklists are sometimes ignored is that most are poorly written or thought out. Those include some written by manufacturers. Some are written as if they are a training manual used by pilots who have never been in the airplane before. These are used as "do" lists; read the item, perform the action, go back to the list, read the next item, perform the action, and so on. I emphasize that this is not a checklist. It is a "do" list. Professional pilots left that idea behind about fifty years ago.
Non-pilot corporate lawyers have been heavily involved in writing some checklists. This results in a document that is essentially not useable. As an example, one manufacturer of large corporate jets had a 'Before Landing" checklist that was 17 items long. This was meant to be executed after the landing gear is extended, which at an approach speed of 145 knots is not long before touchdown. Its length and complexity was distracting and actually created a hazard.
I encourage pilots that are using checklists like this to use their experience and knowledge to create their own checklist. Keep the 'how to" elements out of it, don't omit a "killer" item, put it in a logical order, and above all, make it BRIEF.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
I need a GPS that has a checklist option I can program and advance through via remote or touchscreen.
Gary
Gary
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Frozen cables, pencils or pens in the floor boards, wrenches left by maintenance, broken cable strands against pull brackets, stowed pedals, moose quarter or Amazon box blocking control inputs... there are innumerable problems that an alert pilot may find when moving the controls on preflight.
Someone before mentions doing it prior to start so you can hear- really good point. I found it very easy if I started my preflight by sitting in the seat and moving controls, checking the squawk sheets, lowering the flaps and any other company checks that might be needed before I go outside and walk around.
It is always a good to be reminded that things can and will go wrong, sometimes it is the stuff that will kill you.
Sometimes the life we save is our own!
Someone before mentions doing it prior to start so you can hear- really good point. I found it very easy if I started my preflight by sitting in the seat and moving controls, checking the squawk sheets, lowering the flaps and any other company checks that might be needed before I go outside and walk around.
It is always a good to be reminded that things can and will go wrong, sometimes it is the stuff that will kill you.
Sometimes the life we save is our own!
mvivion
FOUNDER
Bozeman,MT
One thing I frequently (consistently?) see during flight reviews is control checks that are very linear…..stick full fwd, then aft while centered, then full left to right, while centered fore and aft.
I was taught by a retired Naval Aviator to “Wipe out the cockpit”, ie: puts the stick to the forward and far right stop, then keeping fwd pressure, cycle it to full left, then while full left, pull stick all the way aft, then while full aft, move it all the way right, then forward.
I was in a 172 with a CFI candidate preparing to do a “spin flight”, that candidate did the “standard” control check. I took the controls to demo wiping out the cockpit. As I moved the yoke from far left and forward to lest and aft, the controls went “clunk” and stopped at about centered fore and aft. Full left aileron, slide yoke fore and aft, and it hit a stop at about centered elevator.
We never started the engine. Plane had a significantly bent tunnel and firewall, from a hard landing or wheelbarrow.
If you want to take this to the next level, with left hand on stick or yoke, point that thumb straight up….it points to the appropriate deflection of the subject surface for visual verification. No thinking required. A certain mechanic I knew rebuilt a customer plane, did a test flight and had mis rigged controls. After getting out of hospital, rebuilt the plane again.
I was taught by a retired Naval Aviator to “Wipe out the cockpit”, ie: puts the stick to the forward and far right stop, then keeping fwd pressure, cycle it to full left, then while full left, pull stick all the way aft, then while full aft, move it all the way right, then forward.
I was in a 172 with a CFI candidate preparing to do a “spin flight”, that candidate did the “standard” control check. I took the controls to demo wiping out the cockpit. As I moved the yoke from far left and forward to lest and aft, the controls went “clunk” and stopped at about centered fore and aft. Full left aileron, slide yoke fore and aft, and it hit a stop at about centered elevator.
We never started the engine. Plane had a significantly bent tunnel and firewall, from a hard landing or wheelbarrow.
If you want to take this to the next level, with left hand on stick or yoke, point that thumb straight up….it points to the appropriate deflection of the subject surface for visual verification. No thinking required. A certain mechanic I knew rebuilt a customer plane, did a test flight and had mis rigged controls. After getting out of hospital, rebuilt the plane again.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
While sweeping look out at both wings and tail to confirm correct control response. Same for both flaps if available, and trim tab or LE of moveable stab which can be done during walk around. Trim vs cockpit control cables can slip and give a false cockpit indication.
Gary
Gary
