Oops, darn it...

[RedOwlAirfield]

Redowl, It is important to consider contributing factors and make them public so in the future we can help prevent these accidents from happening.

The 182 appears and was reported to me to be 10' off the edge of the landing area, the Maule wingspan is about 35' wide, making the wing about 15' long. So even with the Maule's tires on the landing area it would hit the Cessna.

THAT IS AN UNACCEPTABLE PLACE TO PARK YOUR PLANE!!

The other side of the landing area was covered with knuckleheads on foot, which most pilots would shy away from.

We can all agree the pilot made bad judgments, but let's include a conversation where pilots need to learn to get clear and STAY CLEAR of landing and take off areas.

Mr58;

I think we're much closer in our outlook on this than might first appear .

I fully agree that the 182 was parked stupidly close to the runway. And that people in the landing environment are a big problem - especially since they tend to move without warning. And I appreciate that noting these situations in an effort to draw attention to the deficits they indicate is a good thing. And in fact I thank you for pointing out that angle in the discussion to me as I had missed it.

BUT...

I was primarily reacting to what I perceived as a tendency by the posters to attempt to mitigate the pilot's decisions. It sounded to me like everyone was trying to say these things had some bearing on the accident or contributed to it in some way - they didn't. Those factors DID influence the outcome of the accident but not the occurrence. My assertion was - and remains - that attempting to land in that situation was a markedly poor choice. That poor choice was the cause of the accident - not all the issues that made it a poor choice.

I have no problem with mentioning all the things that made this a poor choice. I was just a bit peeved at (what I perceived) as a tendency to want to say , "Yea it was a bad decision, but all this other stuff." My assertion is the bad decision stands on its own. The circumstances are merely what defined the decision as poor.

My apologies however to anyone who may have felt slighted by my comments. I had no intention to disquiet.

 

[FatCub300]

Man....the day we have to become all politically correct and feel forced to apologize for having an opinion is gonna be a bad day for me...(PUKE!!!)

Red, I could care less if we agree, or don't...you are welcome to your opinion (I happen to agree with it)...watching the video, what you see there is someone attempting to impress spectators with his ability...I'm guilty of the same acts, numerous times in my flying history and by the grace of the gods of the sky...I'm not on youtube anywhere.

If we can't trust each other, just a little bit...in a venue like this...to have a civil verbal disagreement and still be friends, then we are all doomed.

The guy screwed the pooch. Never should have happened. But, it's always easy to armchair quarterback, post-game, so...

Hopefully the broken airplanes get fixed, the wounded ego's heal and we share our successes and failures, so that the rest of us might collectively benefit and not repeat those same acts.

I feel bad for all involved and all involved own a small piece of the mistake. The Pilot owns the big chunk and I'm happy no-one was seriously hurt.

What I'm not willing to do is act all hurt, or offended because of RedOwl's or anyone else words...they're just words.


Steve

 

[bcone1381]

I think maybe my attitude is partly to blame for this. If I was there, I probably would have seen the aircraft parking position, and evaluated it an unnecessary risk with an easy fix. But I would have been unwilling to say anything for fear I would create a negative experience for someone. My passivity is a threat now, isn't it. The fun environment existed before the event. Who want to throw cold water on it? So I would have kept walking.

This was a big financial loss. If we insure our aircraft we are in this together and all have a part to play because data suggests that we all will pay for this through higher insurance costs next year. We can drive down our costs of flying through a little self policing. We might also consider the first one who comes to an event can be a leader and set the tone....so push your aircraft back as close to the trees as possible and help the next guy do the same.

 

[mvivion]

I think maybe my attitude is partly to blame for this. If I was there, I probably would have seen the aircraft parking position, and evaluated it an unnecessary risk with an easy fix. But I would have been unwilling to say anything for fear I would create a negative experience for someone. My passivity is a threat now, isn't it. The fun environment existed before the event. Who want to throw cold water on it? So I would have kept walking.

This was a big financial loss. If we insure our aircraft we are in this together and all have a part to play because data suggests that we all will pay for this through higher insurance costs next year. We can drive down our costs of flying through a little self policing. We might also consider the first one who comes to an event can be a leader and set the tone....so push your aircraft back as close to the trees as possible and help the next guy do the same.

A simple solution would have been to offer the owner of the 182 a hand to turn it around. In that situation, he may not have been able to turn it around and park it properly by himself. Or, he simply didn’t see a problem the way it was parked. Either way, an offer to help turn it around, with a polite explanation why, maybe, could have reduced the damage here.
i can’t imagine why anyone would be offended by that.

 

[Farmboy]

Mike, knowing the location it was in at the end of that line, but not being there for this event, I doubt changing its orientation would have helped. That is at the tip of the triangle between the cross runway and the main runway. My guess would be that spot should have remained empty.

And as others have said there was room to the right for the Maule to land on, or land beyond as mentioned.

 

[RedOwlAirfield]

Man....the day we have to become all politically correct and feel forced to apologize for having an opinion is gonna be a bad day for me...(PUKE!!!)

Red, I could care less if we agree, or don't...you are welcome to your opinion (I happen to agree with it)...watching the video, what you see there is someone attempting to impress spectators with his ability...I'm guilty of the same acts, numerous times in my flying history and by the grace of the gods of the sky...I'm not on youtube anywhere.

If we can't trust each other, just a little bit...in a venue like this...to have a civil verbal disagreement and still be friends, then we are all doomed.

The guy screwed the pooch. Never should have happened. But, it's always easy to armchair quarterback, post-game, so...

Hopefully the broken airplanes get fixed, the wounded ego's heal and we share our successes and failures, so that the rest of us might collectively benefit and not repeat those same acts.

I feel bad for all involved and all involved own a small piece of the mistake. The Pilot owns the big chunk and I'm happy no-one was seriously hurt.

What I'm not willing to do is act all hurt, or offended because of RedOwl's or anyone else words...they're just words.


Steve

Steve;

Thank you boss! I agree about having a civil verbal disagreement - and that's what I was trying to do there. Since it's not really politically based in any way I don't see it as being politically correct - merely a mildly overenergetic attempt to be courteous. I actually wear my Cleveland Indians Hat (with Chief Wahoo on it) everywhere I go just trying to tick people off politically. My opinion is that people who would get offended at things like that need to be offended more. That's Political. I hope that someday we can get back to being able to disagree civilly on political matters.

In this instance we are essentially either a family or a subculture who shares a basic understanding, so we don't really have to worry about offending folks here - at least I hope not. In this case the softening language was more to mitigate what ( I am told - repeatedly) is my tendency to phrase things in a provocative manner rather than to backpedal on any opinion espoused. I am told that I could piss off Mother Teresa by telling her the sky is blue - because of my manner of speech. But my inner self really wants to apologize to you for apologizing. I'm not going to and I realize that's crazy, but hey - truth and all. We all have our failings. At least in the airplane I can escape them temporarily.

In closing - we share the same outlook. I just express myself less well. Thank you for the wisdom that I hope we all remember and promote throughout our society at large...

"They're just words"

Quote attributed to Steve

 

[RedOwlAirfield]

I think maybe my attitude is partly to blame for this. If I was there, I probably would have seen the aircraft parking position, and evaluated it an unnecessary risk with an easy fix. But I would have been unwilling to say anything for fear I would create a negative experience for someone. My passivity is a threat now, isn't it. The fun environment existed before the event. Who want to throw cold water on it? So I would have kept walking.

This was a big financial loss. If we insure our aircraft we are in this together and all have a part to play because data suggests that we all will pay for this through higher insurance costs next year. We can drive down our costs of flying through a little self policing. We might also consider the first one who comes to an event can be a leader and set the tone....so push your aircraft back as close to the trees as possible and help the next guy do the same.

bcone;

You point is one of the best in this discussion so far. As much as I hate folks trying to prioritize their judgement over anyone else's, in this case, someone should have tried to diplomatically discuss with the 182 pilot the potential negative consequences involved with that particular parking spot. Of course the pilot of the 182 should have known better without prompting, but hey. Your point about helping our fellow aviators see dangers that they may have missed is both valid and admirable. You're right in that probably the vast majority of folks would see that and do nothing - or at least before seeing this would have done nothing. I'm hopeful that at least folks may be a little more concerned now that the potentialities have been illuminated.

 

[FatCub300]

This can be a very difficult thing to do...a number of years back, our local sailplane club had a series of "non-standard events" by one sub-par pilot, who everyone liked...they asked me to talk to him in my "ever so gentle" voice...and discuss options for the future. We briefly touched on flying and then golf...and how it might be a much better option for that individual, due to trying to pick up later in life, something that could kill himself, but cause quite a bit of damage to others.

Not the nicest conversation, but...he got the message sadly, after destroying his sailplane a month later. So we've all been there, done that and got the tee shirt.

I remind myself often though, that we really are all dealing with mirrors of ourselves. Mostly Type A personalities. No-one likes being told what to do. Someone's gotta look you in the eye and speak the truth, when they see it.


Steve.

 

[BC12D-4-85]

Did the pilot buzz the runway prior to assess? Or just landed?

Gary

 

[DENNY]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7425061776607382830

Here is another view quite a bit of room as Steve mentioned.
DENNY

 

[Utah-Jay]

Lots of room to the right in that video. Maybe a plane was parked in the wrong spot, but to my eye it looked like a directional control issue.

 

[RedOwlAirfield]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7425061776607382830

Here is another view quite a bit of room as Steve mentioned.
DENNY

Thanks for that view - unfortunately it makes it even worse. There was bucket loads of room on the right side - no need to get anywhere near that 182. So sorry for all those folks.

 

[FatCub300]

Someone above already said this...but both of those videos demonstrate that whatever went wrong when the plane bounced....the pilot definitely stopped piloting and started passengering. Right rudder and brake or even lifting that left wing a bit, given the airspeed might have produced a hugely different outcome.

again, armchair quarter backing...but contingencies are what we need to train for, not normalities.

What I get, out of the mouth of my instructor on a check ride is:
"Wow...I think that gal's naked..!!" which you can be assured, you should be entering an auto (even before the neck snap) and your left hand better be going DOWN!!

That's what we train for. ( over flying naked girls, apparently isn't...who knew? )


Steve

 

[skywagon8a]

Let this be a lesson for all who have seen this episode. Use it as a learning experience to tell yourself "Self, did you see what that guy did? Don't forget it and don't ever do what he did." Someday you may find yourself in a similar situation and you will remember this incident. Then if/when you prevent yourself from repeating the same thing, you will thank yourself for the discussions which took place on SC.org in October 2024.

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Steve)]

Someone above already said this...but both of those videos demonstrate that whatever went wrong when the plane bounced....the pilot definitely stopped piloting and started passengering. Right rudder and brake or even lifting that left wing a bit, given the airspeed might have produced a hugely different outcome.

again, armchair quarter backing...but contingencies are what we need to train for, not normalities.

What I get, out of the mouth of my instructor on a check ride is:
"Wow...I think that gal's naked..!!" which you can be assured, you should be entering an auto (even before the neck snap) and your left hand better be going DOWN!!

That's what we train for. ( over flying naked girls, apparently isn't...who knew? )


Steve

Not to get off the subject, but here is a story.

In my little valley in Southern Oregon there are two flat plateau hills that are popular hiking spots. They are know as Upper and Lower Table Rock. Lower Table Rock has an old dirt airstrip on it that was put up there by the military back in the 40's, 50's. It is a fun thing to buzz over and then dive down into the valley and follow the Rogue River for a bit before climbing out and going on your way.

One day probably 25 years ago or so I buzzed the runway but instead of diving off the end I decided to climb out and turn right to follow the rock ridge and low and behold there were 2 nude girls sunbathing in a small alcove surrounded by trees but right at the edge of the rock. Needless to say I kind of flew in a circle while watching these girls hilariously get dressed and leave as fast as they could. Glad my numbers are only 3 inches on the tail LOL.

--Brian

 

[FatCub300]

Not to get off the subject, but here is a story.

In my little valley in Southern Oregon there are two flat plateau hills that are popular hiking spots. They are know as Upper and Lower Table Rock. Lower Table Rock has an old dirt airstrip on it that was put up there by the military back in the 40's, 50's. It is a fun thing to buzz over and then dive down into the valley and follow the Rogue River for a bit before climbing out and going on your way.

One day probably 25 years ago or so I buzzed the runway but instead of diving off the end I decided to climb out and turn right to follow the rock ridge and low and behold there were 2 nude girls sunbathing in a small alcove surrounded by trees but right at the edge of the rock. Needless to say I kind of flew in a circle while watching these girls hilariously get dressed and leave as fast as they could. Glad my numbers are only 3 inches on the tail LOL.

--Brian

Thank God for no ADSB back then too....!!!

 

[aflyer]

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/plane-emergency-landing-bay-area-highway-19885961.php

 

[Utah-Jay]

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/plane-emergency-landing-bay-area-highway-19885961.php

“Ran out of fuel”

Why does this keep happening?

 

[KevinJ]

“Ran out of fuel”

Why does this keep happening?

“Stuff Happens” …..judging from the picture of a straight airplane it looks like he had plenty of experience in his bucket and now a little less luck in his other bucket

 

[55-PA18A]

Pilot injured in crash of small plane on Lake Hood runway

The pilot was the sole occupant of the aircraft, officials said.

www.adn.com

 

[Bobo]

Quite a bit of detail about the Carbon Cub that ran out of fuel & landed on the highway:

 

[courierguy]

Now I'm wondering where his Idaho place is. And if he needs any crane work....

 

[mvivion]

Pilot injured in crash of small plane on Lake Hood runway

The pilot was the sole occupant of the aircraft, officials said.

www.adn.com

How do you manage to get there on takeoff??

 

[StalledOut]

How do you manage to get there on takeoff??

He had a pretty steep climb for a few seconds before he stalled, the nose dropped and the crunch happened just past midfield.

 

[TcraftF21]

Looks like full flaps on take off.

 

[FatCub300]

I still don't get it...I take off with Full flaps pretty routinely...not a big deal...push the nose forward and go up...

Why did he stall and crash? Did he spin in ?? was there crazy terrible gusty wind, or Cg aft and out...did the engine quit?

Seems weird.


Steve.

 

[skywagon8a]

I still don't get it...I take off with Full flaps pretty routinely...not a big deal...push the nose forward and go up...

Why did he stall and crash? Did he spin in ?? was there crazy terrible gusty wind, or Cg aft and out...did the engine quit?

Seems weird.


Steve.

That's possible...look at the stabilizer trim. It appears to be at or near full nose down indicating he may have knowingly had a heavy aft load and ran out of down elevator authority.

 

[cubdriver2]

That's possible...look at the stabilizer trim. It appears to be at or near full nose down indicating he may have knowingly had a heavy aft load and ran out of down elevator authority.

Then reduce the power

 

[skywagon8a]

Then reduce the power

Use less flap for more elevator authority.

 

[FatCub300]

Use less flap for more elevator authority.

MTV would probably be the one to comment, but I'd think Dept of Interior guys would keep an eye on Cg...