Olibuilt 's New Cub project

[frequent_flyer]

I respect your abilities with electronics and attention to details. Lets not make things more complicated for Oli than necessary. How would your proposed system work if the pilot decided to land with the flaps up? See, there is always something else to consider. Best to keep it as simple as possible.

The system requirements were set in post 678. It was not my proposal that the gear alert system should be based on flap position. My preference would be to use all the available information and, if a terrain database was available, height above surface could an input to the logic.

A brief research of available gear warning systems found this one -

https://www.wipaire.com/wipline-floats/laser-gear-advisory/

 

[skywagon8a]

I was thinking a simple "Check Gear" audio reminder would not hurt?

From now on I will do the routine stated above. Thanks

If you want a simple warning without a lot of fancy do-dads try a red light on top of the instrument panel next to the gear lights. Activate it with a switch connected to the throttle. Adjust it so that it lights at a power setting which is just a bit too high for a landing. Wire in an automotive flasher to make the light blink. I had a Swift which had a warning system like this. No talking, just a flashing light.

The issue I see with this is your slats. With the slats you may drag it in with power never reducing the power until you land, which could be too late to help you.

For now at least, just skip any extra warnings and develop a good learned consistent procedure which always works for you.

 

[skywagon8a]

The system requirements were set in post 678. It was not my proposal that the gear alert system should be based on flap position. My preference would be to use all the available information and, if a terrain data was available, height above surface could an input to the logic.

A brief research of available gear warning systems found this one -

https://www.wipaire.com/wipline-floats/laser-gear-advisory/

That's the system which was in the airplane that flipped in the video.

 

[LMartin]

Yeah, there Hass to be a good setting for those. I hate both having them yapping at me all the time while fly slow in a cub (cb) and when they’re set so slow that about 1 foot before touchdown on pavement, the creepy man voice suddenly announces…”Gear down…”


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

 

[mvivion]

That's the system which was in the airplane that flipped in the video.

Pete,

Those are indeed Wip floats, but this accident happened looooong before Wip came out with the laser gear warning system. I’ve flown those older Wip 3730 amphibs and the gear warning system that came with them was a very simple lights and audible warning that was silenced with a button.

The laser warning system is an interesting system, but still has limitations. I’ve landed seaplanes a LOT where i needed/wanted to touch down close to shore, in which case, the laser would detect land right up till near the touch. By the time it detected water and alerted, it’d be too late.

Frankly, the human is clearly the weak link when it comes to amphibs. That said a LOT of professional pilots have flown them for millions of landings safely. It can be done, but not with gadgets.

it’s the gray matter twixt the ears that counts.

MTV

 

[LMartin]

FireBosses have the laser systems. We spent a lot of time working on them. Computers make life easier when they’re working, but still require an aware human brain to detect frequent malfunctions.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

 

[wireweinie]

If you have GPS and a good terrain database it would be possible to develop a system that knows the aircraft is low over water with flaps down or low over land with flaps down. The system would then know if wheel should be up or down and could alert for an incorrect configuration.

I'm actually surprised no one has developed such a system and perhaps they have. Perhaps they were discouraged by the problem of making low approaches over land surrounding the intended water surface.

Water doesn't stay in the same place. Lakes rise and fall and streams shift. What was water a few weeks ago may be dirt now, or vice versa.

Web

 

[mvivion]

Water doesn't stay in the same place. Lakes rise and fall and streams shift. What was water a few weeks ago may be dirt now, or vice versa.

Web

Absolutely true. In Interior Alaska, there are many lakes that literally go dry without any surface water, yet a year or two later will be plenty deep to land a seaplane. Many other places on planet Earth do the same.

MTV

 

[Olibuilt]

I'm still convince a audio "Check Gear- Check Gear" friendly reminder would be helpful for me.

I always use 35* or more flaps on landings and takeoffs. My Flightcom IISX 2-Place Portable Intercom is next to my flap handle.

I would love to have a simple way to plug a small 12v speech module to the intercom input, triggered by the flap handle position.



something like this ?

edit: found a better one I think

http://4 Buttons Triggered MP3 Player Board with 10W Amplifier and Terminal Blocks








Anybody around willing to help?

 

[frequent_flyer]

The ISD1820 may be suitable for your project. Some eBay outlets are showing 5 for under $20. You would also need an inexpensive voltage regulator or run it from a battery pack or perhaps a USB charge port.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Clamar does sell a gear advisory system that’s airspeed driven but you can also add a flap position. The only thing wrong with it is it’s about $1500. Mirrors and good habit patterns are cheaper.

 

[Olibuilt]

I have install the little “gear reminder” mp3 player I have posted earlier. Very easy to setup. Works good with my flap handle.

I now have about 15 hrs on the floats. Brakes are strong for runway operation. No front wheel shimmy yet.

6 degree rigging is working perfect for me. I think I could take another degree without trouble, but will stay at 6 for now.

 

[farm_boy252]

Nice! All the lakes and rivers are still frozen where im at!

 

[skywagon8a]

Oli, What is your indicated cruise speed on these floats? At what rpm? What was the speed on wheels?

 

[Olibuilt]

Oli, What is your indicated cruise speed on these floats? At what rpm? What was the speed on wheels?

A little faster on floats, but About 85mph @ 2450rpm on wheels, skis or floats.

I think the slats and Catto 86x36 prop are not helping me going fast…

 

[Olibuilt]

So good to be back on floats!


Airplane is going strong with the amphibs added weight.

Still have not try my 10’ PortaBote on the spreader bar.


500 lbs, 55 deg, 1000asl, little wind
this is the first outside video I have:

 

[skywagon8a]

If you start the take off with some flaps down, it will get on the step quicker. The prop blast over the flaps provides some lift.

 

[supercrow]

My flaps are oversize in both chord and length. And if I need to in a tight spot, I will usually Pull 20 or 30° of flaps initially. It not only gets me onto the step faster, but I think it holds me back a little in distance, which is good. I’ll take them off as it rolls on to the step to maximize acceleration. Then after a few seconds will apply again for lift off.

 

[Olibuilt]

Next project is to build a rapid Canoe rack that could maybe serve has a Moose Quarters rack...


I've bought 2 old 12' Sportspal canoes.



Canoes being 38" wide, I need extend the lower part of the rack:

 

[Olibuilt]

Quick attach canoe rack design is almost done. A few things to do, welding, and paint will be done later.

I will try flying the 12' pointed canoe first, and then the 12' transom one, maybe...

 

[Franky]

Just a small thing Oli, when you will try the transom one, put the transom in the back, in the front, it will create a lot of drag and turbulent airflow, you will definitely feel it, even in the back, it may create a turbulent airflow that will hit the elevator.

Franky

 

[skywagon8a]

Just a small thing Oli, when you will try the transom one, put the transom in the back, in the front, it will create a lot of drag and turbulent airflow, you will definitely feel it, even in the back, it may create a turbulent airflow that will hit the elevator.

Franky

The transom in the back will create more drag.

 

[DENNY]

If you look at pictures of aircraft with boats on floats the all seem to have the bow in the back. Don't seem right but the FAA had a class on external loads an they mentioned the same thing, Transom gos to the front.
DENNY

 

[Franky]

It's well possible, i never flew a fixed wings on floats, i'm a chopper pilot, and maybe putting it the back, create just too much turbulence on on side of the elevator.

 

[skywagon8a]

It's well possible, i never flew a fixed wings on floats, i'm a chopper pilot, and maybe putting it the back, create just too much turbulence on on side of the elevator.

Even though both directions create a certain amount of turbulence, the flat section forward creates less drag. Think of it this way...where is the pointy end on most all airplanes? Helicopters too.

 

[mvivion]

It's well possible, i never flew a fixed wings on floats, i'm a chopper pilot, and maybe putting it the back, create just too much turbulence on on side of the elevator.

Exactly. The turbulence created by air flowing around the transom WILL cause issues with elevator effectiveness, if the transom is aft.

Transom always goes forward.

MTV

 

[Franky]

I disagree with your statement that a flat section create less drag, a flat section is a no-no for anything that fly.
External loads with a helicopter, is a totally different game, on a floats plane, the load is fixed and can't
move, (and it should not be able to move), on a helicopter, you are talking about a sling load that is totally
free to move, the reaction to the relative wind, will be totally different, depending of the shape of the load, its weight and its aerodynamic, that is not comparing apples with apples.

 

[Franky]

If you want to transport a canoe with a flat transom with a helicopter, you have to attach the line to the bow, put some weight in the transom and it should somewhat fly at low speed, the heavier it is, the better it fly, if it's too light, it may spin and end up in the main rotor, it is easier to transport 15 feetts aluminum boat than a canoe.

 

[skywagon8a]

I disagree with your statement that a flat section create less drag, a flat section is a no-no for anything that fly.

The flat section facing forward creates less drag than the flat section facing aft. This is shown in the above diagram. The swirling arrows represent the amount of drag.

External loads on a helicopter are entirely different in that they are basically an object on the end of a string which require additional stabilizing methods. The principles of drag are the same.

 

[Olibuilt]

https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/re...isory-circular-ac-no-500-011-issue-1-appendix

...boats and canoes are to be carried partially inverted, stern forward...

...Piper PA 12 (150 h) 17-ft, 90-lb canoe or folding boat on a boat rack, speeds up to 100 mph ...

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