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O-200 Problems

silflexer

MEMBER
Buddy of mine has an O-200 with about 120 hrs since field overhaul. Just bought a new Kelly Aerospace MA-3 carb about 20 hours ago and came out of annual 4 hours ago. At annual they found the #3 cylinder had very poor compression and pulled it for the local guy to go through. After annual, he flew it about 4 hours home with no problems but when he went out the next day to fly, it would not run well above idle. Found a sticking valve on the newly worked on cylinder and after some penetrating oil and time it began working fine. Ran it again and same thing- engine begins to miss/load up/ sound like crap at about 1200 rpm, and clears out around 1950. Will run up static to 2300 rpm, and mag check is normal. Checked compressions cold and all cylinders at or above 70. Checked compressions hot and all at or above 75. Warmed up and set idle mixture correctly. No change. Pulled off cowl to take a good look and found #3 cylinder intake nuts had either not been put on or had come off. Replaced and tightened intake nuts, checked the rest of the engine for loose hardware and ran again. No change. No primer installed so not that. Sprayed carb cleaner on engine intake connections while running and no RPM changes. At this point we are thinking that the new carb has a problem. I think this can be caused by either an accelerator pump, or maybe some of the idle circuits having gunk in them. Engine makes great static power above 2000rpm, and idles normally. Any ideas other than pulling the carb? The folks he bought the carb from said that the warranty is 6 months or 60 days after installation, and since he bought it in November, installed in march, they are saying he will have to pay for a complete rebuild. Any ideas? Maybe a lifter? Ignition leads? Don't think it is valve springs but since the relatively new cylinder is already causing problems who knows.


JB
 
I have seen this exact symptom on a 65 (or 75?). Turned out to be incorrect venturi on the carb. I don't remember the details, but the carb was the fix. I think the valve issue is not the primary cause.

I am not an A&P, but I observed the process on a friend's J3. He sent the carb out for rebuild with no change, so he sent it back again and the rebuilder found the wrong part. In this case, the problem was not as bad if you put the carb heat on. Strange. Carbs are a black art to me!

Rich
 
I have seen this exact symptom on a 65 (or 75?). Turned out to be incorrect venturi on the carb. I don't remember the details, but the carb was the fix. I think the valve issue is not the primary cause.

I am not an A&P, but I observed the process on a friend's J3. He sent the carb out for rebuild with no change, so he sent it back again and the rebuilder found the wrong part. In this case, the problem was not as bad if you put the carb heat on. Strange. Carbs are a black art to me!

Rich
carb shoub be a MSA 3SPA
 
One of the Carb Options for the O-200 is the MA3-SPA (10-4894).

Ignition Leads usually will give you a Mag Drop so I don't think that is the problem

but I've seen a few strange things.

Was "Dry Lifter Clearance" checked @ cylinder install?

Another concern can be "swapped" Rocker Arms.

Intake Rocker on the Exhaust Valve will work the the Valve will

receive inadequate lubrication.

Extra hole in Exhaust Rockers.

LEAKAGE or spark jumping center conductor to shielding would be the concern.

Easy to check with a High Voltage Tester.
 
"Dry Lifter Clearance" is to assure that the system is within the working range of the lifter.

Easy to do with the cylinder removed.

Often overlooked at jug changes.

That doesn't mean it's right.

If Valve Faces or Seats are ground the the clearance decreases.

Clearance is adjusted via different length pushrods.
 
I am hesitant to send this carb in without know for sure that it is the carb. The cylinder that was put on during annual was the same that was taken off I believe. I sure hate to waste time and money on this one before I trouble shoot this a little better. The IA that did the work on the airplane did initially think that maybe some contamination in the lifter was making it slow. Not sure what else we can do other than pull the cylinder, and then the carb. Seems strange to have a sticky valve in the newly rebuilt cylinder, and even stranger that the carb would suddenly be the culprit.
 
Not that unusual to have a sticky valve on a newly rebuilt cyl.. Happens more often than you might think.
 
Did you ask the IA if Dry Lifter Clearance was checked?

An accurate check requires Lifter removal, cleaning, drying & reassembly.

If the housing below the cylinder appears undisturbed then it wasn't checked.

Too tight & valve could not be able to close & too loose &you loose power.

If you remove Pocker Cover & torn Crank until Exhaust Valve & TIME

the Lifter will bleed down.

Push in on the pushrod end of the Rocker Arm & rotate to TDC.

You can get a ROUGH idea of DLC.

O-200 = .030 to .110 I think.
 
If he pulls the cylinder make sure the cam follower is not cracked, I had mechanic working on cylinder and when put back togather didn't get the cap that pushrod sets into right and it broke a camfollower. NOT GOOD, if that happened the engine case will have to be split to replace.
 
I had a busted cam follower on a C90 I had once- what a pain in the butt. Do you think the thing would run so strong at static full power with the lifter not functioning? That is what has me thinking it is a carb. He called Kelly today and they mentioned that they have had a number of problems with the 1 piece venturis. Hope they warranty it if it is the carb.
 
I agree with JimC. It's the intake elbow gasket. One side got sucked in and deformed when the elbow nuts were loose. It seals well enough at idle that carb cleaner didn't find it. At mid throttle it leaks enough air to misfire. At full throttle it's still lean but not enough to misfire. Change the gasket. Also you don't have to overhaul your carburetor every time you send it in. If you determine the carb is the problem and it is really low hours, get it repaired. You will have to insist you only want it repaired, but if it's a 200 since overhaul carb and you don't want another overhaul, they should repair it at your request. Change the elbow gasket first. jrh
 
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