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New Discussion Forum on "Other" Airplanes

Normally when I post something as controversial as I did above (ragging on 170's) it would start a string of replies.... What's happening? No one reading this?
I read it 26H. I have also looked at the 170's but unless it is powered by a 180hp it isn't worth my time. I already have an older 172 so performance is about the same.

As for the price on 180's...I have seen several nice one's in the 65-85k range. That is why I have been looking. A decent SC is the same price range.
Bill-26H, If anyone thought you knew what you were talking about on the 170 thing, they'd have given you a ration of abuse. Take the silence for what it is. :D :peeper

Seriously, consider the possibility that 170 owners are stone-stepping up from a lesser a/c to (hopefully) a 180/5 and might be low-time, and with no regard for how much weight you can stuff in the 170, even if you don't have the HP to keep it flying. Then they go and get slow, and...........

It's not so hard to imagine.

I agree, the 170 is no 180, when loaded, but can do great when light.
Well course you are correct again, David. But recall I did say something about "pilot error" and that the 170 is a fine aircraft, so can we both be wrong?
N5126H said:
Normally when I post something as controversial as I did above (ragging on 170's) it would start a string of replies.... What's happening? No one reading this?

That's because there's nothing untrue about what you said.

I agree with David (if you keep a 170 light, you can have some fun with
it). FWIW, I used the 170B as a stepping stone to get what I wanted in
the 1st place (an early 180).

With the 170, I had to watch the weight/load carefully (usually just
me with the back seat out and 1/2 fuel or less). At that weight, I
could pretty much go wherever my 180 buds went, but I still had
to watch the heat (density altitude).

As far as a 180hp (or Cont. 210hp) 170 goes, someone would have
to give you a decent 170B airframe for free to make the conversion
worthwhile. If you paid market value for a decent 170B and then
paid for the engine conversion, you'd have more in the 170 then
you would a decent, early C-180.
That is exactly what I am seeing with the 170's. And finding a good one with the 180hp already installed the price on them is in the same league as a C-180. And of course the C-180 will haul more.
Still looking.
What would you guy's say was the most UN-desirable feature of a potential 180/185 on the resale market.

All I know about them is I have a friend who had a nice 180 late model,and was selling it and run in to trouble. The plane's resale value had been lowered due to the repairs that were done to the gear leg box's after a mishap. I sure wish I could have bought it though it was quite nice.
Beauty is more than skin deep.

I would add to Dave's rather comprehensive list that you should have someone who is truly a Cessna tailwheel expert maintenance wise, to take a VERY close look at the gearbox, including as Dave mentioned, loose rivets. We've also found rivets with the heads sheared off, and some really scabbed up repairs of gearboxes.

Don't fear a properly done repair. The day and age that an old airplane would lose value because of damage history is probably behind us. Lots of airplanes have damage history. The key is how that damage was repaired, and if it was done wrong, and it was in the gearbox, you don't want that airplane, no matter how pretty it was.

I agree that the 170, even with the 180 hp engine is valued at nearly what a 180 costs. The 180's have the reputation, I think of having been worked harder, and used harder, but that's not necessarily true.

I've seen these airplanes bought that had to have nearly all the belly skins replaced AFTER the gearbox was almost completely replaced. You don't want to have to pay for that.

My 170 does just fine, and will probably get in and out of anything any 180 will. It has a 180 on it. But, I'm a lot slower than a 180, and can't carry as much stuff. I've learned to live with it though 8) .

It used to be you could buy a well used early 182 and convert it to a 180. THen you KNOW what the gearbox is like. Now, however, even the early 182's have gone up in price except for the 9,000 hour skydiver machines.

And of course, labor to install the gearbox is sky high now as well, unless you can do it yourself.

I would add (from experience) that you are lot more likely to have corrosion from mouse urine than you are a bad repair. Mice just love these old cessnas. The guy working on my 180 has sent me tons of pictures of dried up mice and rats he has pulled out of the plane.

I would like to see a picture of a ton of dead mice and rats....
how about it?
Looking for clean light earlier 180. Any tips?? Where are those deals in Alaska N5126H. Steve, You got any leads left from when you were looking?? pm me if you like
N5126H said:
I would like to see a picture of a ton of dead mice and rats....
how about it?

Well, it was tons of pictures, not tons of mice... I'll try to post a couple today. They ate just about every piece of insulation on the plane.

Patrol and Bearhawk

Like all things about the Cubs, but spend most all my time building Patrols, should be able to find the yahoo-message site under Patrol with lots of my photos. I also build l tail wheels for cub clones and many other T-draggers. Has been great fun.

Most notable on the Patrol is the room and metal 1 strut wing, as well as a 140 mph cruise.. Same frame/gear can also be made to fit into the LSA catagory with lower HP and watching your weight.

Scott- Iron Design L.L.C.
Scott Weinberg
13631 Vail Ave
Clarksville, Iowa 50619
319-276-4400 home/office
319-404-4401 cell/shop/office
For someone lusting after a SC, but unable or unwilling to pay the admittance fee and the ongoing fuel costs: I believe the Rans S-7S is a great bang for the buck. Of course I own one, actually my second one.  I've taken many SC pilots for rides, they feel right at home from the getgo. Fuel burn for me, solo, and just putting around the local mountains can be easily gotten below 2 GPH (1.8 gph @ 55 to 60 mph indicated @ 6500 asl). Getting somewhere faster (85 indicated @ 10,500' asl) loaded with camping gear and the folding mt. bike gets it up to about 4 gph.  

The company is as solid as it gets in the kitplane world, right up there or equal to Vans in owner/builder satisfaction, they will be there tomorrow. 

  One huge benefit to the breed that is often not mentioned or considered is the noise level. While typical inside of any light fabric plane, the perceived noise from the ground , especially with a 3 blade prop, is unreal. I recently had 2 different neighbors, newbies some 1 mile north of my place, express shock when they stopped by and saw the hangered plane. I was also amazed, but they stated they had no idea I was flying out of my 40 acre property (and flying over and by their houses) just right down the road. "I'm the kind of guy who notices stuff like that", one stated.  Point is a properly muffled AND operated 912 Rotax aircraft is the quietest thing out there, and frankly allows you to do more unusual type flying with no negative feedback or attention .

I only state this because I'd hate to think someone would pass up the whole SC type flying experience due to cost. I have around 45K in my NEW bird, like many I have not totaled everything up, don't REALLY want to know!
It's been a while since I did a post. But I find this to be a VERY interesting topic. Altho I love flying my Super J-3, it is just a part of my love of flying. I also fly a tricked out 1956 Cessna 172 Straight Tail with 180 conversion, constant speed prop, Horton STOL kit and big tires. For water flying I have a Wag Aero 2+2 with 180 Lycon and 2200 Amphibs. And my most recent indulgment was to buy a 1933 Stinson SR JR on 4000 Edos powered by a Wright 985. It gets off the water in 8 seconds. I also have wheels and skis and keep it in Homer, Ak where I will play with it next summer and thereafter. Its not that I'm addicted or anything, but I have 8 others most of which are for sale. Wife says I can buy a Lodge in Alaska if I sell all eight. Any takers??? Steve J
STeveJ. Hi.

Where did your SRJR come from? Very cool a/c. Kinda like a giant Cub with 450 HP?

Actually, I didn't, but I got it anyway... 8)

This forum "my other airplane is a" is the full extent of other aircraft discussion. It could be a fabric covered piper colt, for example. We ALREADY (as I pointed out) talk about other airplanes all the time, I thought it might be best to keep them in their own category, so that folks won't be distracted by them.

We are not trying to exapand, just contain.

much ado about nuthin. its all good. a little variety keeps it interesting.
My "Other" plane we use for our construction business (we build large dairyfarms throughout the US) is a Quest Kodiak (questaircraft.com). It's not a taildragger- but a beast in every other department. 3250 lb. useful load, G 1000 w synthetic vision, TKS wet wing, 750 hp P/W up front, 10 seats. I can haul 8 big employees, plus gear, fuel and land in the dirt, right at the job site. Full gross takeoff is about 750 ft. Still wish is was a taildragger.
No, no, no, no, no...

.....you don't want some measly 750HP Otter.

Ya gotta go for 1,000 HP.

But I bet loading that tricycle Kodiak is alot less hassle than an Otter in 3-point.

Sorry SB, we seem to have differences of opinion today.
Interesting comparison....I used to fly a red round engine Otter in Homer if you remember Dave (666XX) and it was like a big Cub but sure did like to ice up the carb at idle if you forgot carb heat. Easy to load...put the stuff in the front and it slide back to the back by itself on a wet floor. We used to fly fish eggs off the beach to the JAL 47's at ANC. I've never flown a Kodiak but they are built down the road from my place in Sandpoint and I see them doing some pretty cool stuff with the front wheel config. Just wish turbines were cheaper all around.
j-3cub sunset photo.JPG
A perfect sunset evening at Spruce Creek in Florida. Two RV-8s escorting a Cub, on the right wing is John Fleurent, on the left wing is Mike Kelly. Is the Cub fast or are the RV-8s slow? It was a fun evening.


  • j-3cub sunset photo.JPG
    j-3cub sunset photo.JPG
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This is a timely resurrection of a thread. I have decided after much thought to switch to a light sport aircraft. I took a deposit this week on my trusty Scout and also on my Citabria floatplane. I had a lot of calls on both, I was surprised at the robustness of the market
So I have been shopping lightsport taildraggers for a month or so. The girl of my dreams is the same as many of yours her name is Carbon Cub but she is too expensive a date at this point so I keep looking

Also looking at Sport Cubs with both the xp mod and stock 0200. It's been a bit confusing with the advice I have gotten. The folks who own and fly them love them, but a couple of APs not so much. Too hard to work on, too lightweight construction not built to last like a cub, some issues with warranty on both engine and airframe. Looking for advice

A factory new Rans S7S was in my strip last month nice looking bird as well. Mr Swingle sure has showed us those capabilities so I need to eyeball one of those, and have been looking at a couple Legend cubs too. I looked at a PA 11 but I really want something with electric
what am I missing?

Bearhawk LSA, tough little bird, 800 lbs with an O200 and electric, can build it how you want it. Look it up, If it's something you're interested in we should talk.