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Lawsuit filed over Frank Church Wilderness

A recent article:

[COLOR=var(--primary-text)]Alaska joins other states in opposition to proposed BLM land rule
By Jack Barnwell

Alaska, along with 16 other states, are challenging how the Bureau of Land Management might replace multi-use land with conservation purposes, according to an Alaska Department of Law news release.

The Department of the Interior — the BLM’s parent agency — proposed a new rule in March that “would establish a framework to ensure healthy landscapes, abundant wildlife habitat, clean water and balanced decision-making on our nation’s public lands.”

According to the DOI, the Conservation and Landscape Health Rule was drafted in response to better management of public federal lands, waters and wildlife “in the face of devastating wildfires, historic droughts, and severe storms that communities are experiencing across the West.”

But Alaska state officials view it as another example of federal overreach.

“This conservation-or-nothing attitude will significantly reduce the wellbeing of millions of people who derive benefit from the multiple uses that Congress granted. In sum, this proposed action will upend the history and legal framework of BLM-managed lands,” Alaska Attorney General Treg Taylor wrote in a statement.

Gov. Mike Dunleavy noted that courts have ruled federal government “out of bounds” in the past. He added Alaska’s public lands represent a broad economic range for the state.

“Alaskans, businesses, and the State all need predictability and assurances about their livelihoods and endeavors— our economy depends on it,” Dunleavy said in a written statement. “Our lands don’t have to be locked up by a distant office in D.C. Balance between uses and protecting our environment can exist— Alaskans have shown that for decades.”

According to the Interior Department, the proposed rule would provide a roadmap for federal land management agencies. The new tools would allow inventory and assessment the health of public lands, identify climate changes, demand for public land use and implement adaptive management strategies.

The new rule would integrated in part into the Federal Land Policy and Management Act.

It would also “increase access to outdoor recreation by putting conservation on equal footing with other uses,” according to the Interior Department.

An additional component — conservation leasing — would be introduced to “facilitate restoration work on public lands in cooperation with community partners.”

Under a conservation lease, interested groups would be able to conduct research or mitigation efforts while “generating revenue for the American taxpayer.” Such activities might include restoration of game migration corridors or creating carbon markets.

State commissioners disagree, noting that Congress did not include conservation when it pushed the Federal Land Policy and Management Act into law. The uses designated by Congress for federal management of lands include “mining operations, motorized recreation, natural gas leases, guide concessions, hunting and fishing, tourism, scientific study,” among others.

“ This ill- conceived nationwide rule would have outsize implications on Alaskans given that the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) has already struck the final balance between conservation and multiple use for federal lands in Alaska,” said Alaska Department of Natural Resources Commissioner John Boyle.

Boyle added that federal lands not specifically classified for conservation “must be available for Alaskans to use and enjoy ... which is why we are objecting to this proposed rule.”

Alaska Fish and Game Commissioner Doug Vincent-Lang said the proposed rule clashes with the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act.

“ The plain language of ANILCA, as written by Congress, is very clear and numerous times states that it has achieved a balance be tween conser v a tion and other uses in Alaska,” Vincent-Lang wrote. “We don’t need the new leadership of BLM rewriting history as is being attempted by this proposed rule-making exercise.”







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All reactions:
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I think those who cry out in opposition to entitlement are usually doing so to protect their own entitlement, but that isn’t the issue here. I hope the RAF carefully considers supporting this lawsuit. Aviation’s support of a maintained wilderness could be a great investment in sustaining aviation outside of protected wilderness areas. Compromise is a tool to affect an outcome. The primary use of the strips within the Wilderness is for guys to snap selfies to post on Facebook. That’s not worth fighting for in my book. Let the hikers and kayakers have their peace and quiet. Take some time and be one of those hikers or put in for a permit the take a kayak trip. See what it is these groups are fighting for. Then let’s revive the conversation.

I put bold in the above, I want to specifically address this first, I am one of many I know that fish in the BC area, which also entails camping. So no that is not true. As for compromise… @aktango58 is 100% correct on the history of negotiating with these groups! They just chip away at you until they have taken everything away.

As I stated above, I do not believe in compromising on this issue, I DO believe in policing ourselves.

Stewart you also stated you can drive to BC, yes to the BC lodge sure, but the pristine fishing is not at the lodge, it is near two of the BC4 strips which is certainly not a great option to hike in that far when I can “legally” fly in. I have zero interest in Mile Hi, too high above the river to be a fishing destination, Simonds is beyond my flying level (I am not into narrow side sloping strips) although the river there looks interesting.

Bottom line, I will repeat a part of my previous post…. We collectively need to stop the low flying over the rivers and close proximity to the water. #1 it is not safe, #2 it will only be a source of more aggravation with the hikers/floaters
 
What is the difference between wanting to take a selfie in front of a kayak in a beautiful place or a in front of your airplane? Compromising with zealots never works, be it religious, political or environmental. On top of that there is highly paid and organized groups backing the environmentalists and don't forget the government agencies we fund mostly working in the same direction. Those in their path are not nearly so well funded or organized. Be respectful of other's differing ways to enjoy things but not at the exclusion of your own. We see this in Alaska all the time. This isn't a "pendulum" thing that swings back and forth, it incrementally only goes one way.
 
For anyone who’s interested. Scroll down and you’ll find the airstrip management plans.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/scnf/specialplaces/?cid=stelprdb5360033

Anchorage area pilots are familiar with this kind of fight. When ANILCA created the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge, a large chunk of our recreational playground was closed to aircraft. We can still use the land but we can’t come and go with airplanes except for a few designated lakes. I looked across in inlet at that land from my house for 35 years. There are lots of other places to go. Not the end of the world.

First of all, ANILCA did not "create" the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge, it simply re-established the Refuge. And, a couple of sensitive swan nesting areas were closed to aircraft landings, which had NOTHING to do with ANILCA.....it had to do with Trumpeter Swans, actually, which is one of the reasons the refuge was established.

But, here is the actual list of water bodies on the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge which are in fact OPEN to landing aircraft:

AIRCRAFT
Except in an emergency, the operation of aircraft on the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge is authorized only in designated areas. We allow the operation of airplanes within the Kenai Wilderness on the following designated lakes, and under the restrictions noted:

Dave Spencer (Canoe Lakes) Unit

Bedlam Lake
Bird Lake
Cook Lake
Grouse Lake
King Lake
Mull Lake
Nekutak Lake
Norak Lake
Sandpiper Lake
Scenic Lake
Shoepac Lake
Snowshoe Lake
Taiga Lake
Tangerra Lake
Vogel Lake
Wilderness Lake
Pepper, Gene, and Swanson lakes are open to operation of airplanes only to provide access for ice fishing.

Andrew Simons Unit

Emerald Lake
Green Lake
Harvey Lake
High Lake
Iceberg Lake
Kolomin Lakes
Lower Russian Lake
Martin Lake
Pothole Lake
Twin Lakes
Upper Russian Lake
Windy Lake
Dinglestadt Glacier terminus lake
Wosnesenski Glacier terminus lake
Tustumena Lake and all lakes within the Kenai Wilderness within 1 mile of the shoreline of Tustumena Lake
All unnamed lakes in sections 1 and 2, T. 1 S., R. 10 W., and sections 4, 5, 8, and 9, T. 1 S., R. 9 W., Seward Meridian.
An unnamed lake in sections 28 and 29, T. 2 N., R. 4 W., Seward Meridian: The Refuge Manager may issue a special use permit (FWS Form 3-1383-G) for the operation of airplanes on this lake to successful applicants for certain State of Alaska, limited-entry, drawing permit hunts. Successful applicants should contact the Refuge Manager to request information.

Mystery Creek Unit. An unnamed lake in section 11, T. 6 N., R. 5 W., Seward Meridian.
We allow the operation of airplanes on all lakes outside of the Kenai Wilderness, except that we prohibit aircraft operation on:

The following lakes with recreational developments, including, but not limited to, campgrounds, campsites, and public hiking trails connected to road waysides, north of the Sterling Highway: Afonasi Lake, Anertz Lake, Breeze Lake, Cashka Lake, Dabbler Lake, Dolly Varden Lake, Forest Lake, Imeri Lake, Lili Lake, Mosquito Lake, Nest Lake, Rainbow Lake, Silver Lake, Upper Jean Lake, Watson Lake, and Weed Lake.
All lakes within the Skilak Wildlife Recreation Area (south of Sterling Highway and north of Skilak Lake), except for Bottenintnin Lake (open to airplanes year-round) and Hidden Lake (open to airplanes only to provide access for ice fishing).
Headquarters Lake (south of Soldotna), except for administrative purposes. You must request permission from the Refuge Manager.

Notwithstanding any other provisions of this part, we prohibit the operation of aircraft from May 1 through September 10 on any lake where nesting trumpeter swans or their broods or both are present.
We prohibit the operation of wheeled airplanes, with the following exceptions:

We allow the operation of wheeled airplanes, at the pilot's risk, on the unmaintained Big Indian Creek Airstrip; on gravel areas within 1/2 mile of Wosnesenski Glacier terminus lake; and within the SE1/4, section 16 and SW1/4, section 15, T. 4 S., R. 8 W., Seward Meridian.
We allow the operation of wheeled airplanes, at the pilot's risk, within designated areas of the Chickaloon River Flats, including all of sections 5 and 6 and parts of sections 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 11, and 16, T. 9 N., R. 4 W.; all of section 1 and parts of sections 2, 3, 4, 5, 11, and 12, T. 9 N., R. 5 W.; all of sections 33 and 34 and parts of sections 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 31, 32, and 35, T. 10 N., R. 4 W.; all of section 33 and parts of sections 19, 27, 28 29, 30 32, 34, 35, and 36, T. 10 N., R. 5 W, Seward Meridian.

We allow the operation of airplanes on the Kasilof River, on the Chickaloon River (from the outlet to mile 6.5), and on the Kenai River below Skilak Lake (from June 15 through March 14). We prohibit aircraft operation on all other rivers on the refuge.
We prohibit the operation of unlicensed aircraft anywhere on the refuge except as authorized under terms and conditions of a special use permit (FWS Form 3-1383-G) issued by the Refuge Manager.
We prohibit air dropping any items within the Kenai Wilderness except as authorized under terms and conditions of a special use permit (FWS Form 3-1383-G) issued by the Refuge Manager.


So, in fact the vast majority of waterbodies on the Kenai Refuge are still open to landing aircraft.

And, by the way, ANILCA ordered that aircraft landings would be permitted on MOST conservation areas in Alaska, rather than closing areas to landing aircraft. A unit has to go through a process to actually CLOSE an area to aircraft operations now, as opposed to the way things work in the Lower 48.

I used to fairly frequently fly down to Wonder Lake in Denali NATIONAL PARK, land my float plane and eat lunch in the shadow of Denali.....try that in a National Park or Refuge in the Lower 48.....all thanks to ANILCA.

MTV
 

Oh, yeah, landing a helicopter without a permit in a National Park or Refuge OR in designated Wilderness anywhere will get you a citation, if you're caught. A local gent landed his Jet Ranger within the Bob Marshall a few years ago and was photographed by some horse packers. Went to court, apologized and paid a $500 fine, done. He won't go there again, the publicity hurt him more than the fine.

That statement that the Colorado guy was fined for flying lower than safe altitude in a Park is odd.....Does that Park have airspace restrictions?

MTV
 
What I find most interesting in these conversations is that even within our small community opinions are so disparate. In other words, some seem fine with aviation being outright outlawed and others are fine with smoke-filled airshows. Note I am not taking any sides nor suggest those in this thread fall into these extremes: I am simply expressing an observation.

If there is one thing the OHV community has learned to do after years of trail closures it is to at least sing from the same hymn book. I have 100's of miles of OHV available 5 minutes from my door which somehow has become socially acceptable but heaven forbid a small aircraft anywhere near those same OHV trails or over a river that might have a someone drinking beer in an raft. Yes, I know in this specific thread we are talking about wilderness areas, but I am pointing to the fact most state-level OHV organizations have found they must work together legally and financially or the BLM/National Forest/public land access quickly disappears due to the same loud voices.

Does anyone feel the AOPA or RAF speaks cohesively to these concerns from a Cub-pilots perspective or no? I am just curious.
 

Nope, all that designation means is that it's a National Park, and with a few exceptions, there is no restriction to flying over National Parks. It is recommended that aircraft fly at greater than 2000 agl over National Parks, but that is not a regulation. There IS a regulation against flying drones over a National Park, and I'm betting that's what he was cited for, not for flying low in a GA aircraft.

MTV
 
I know years ago there was over 100 million, that's right 100 million acres of designated wilderness in the U.S. And there is probably millions of acres of "de facto" wilderness where it hasn't been designated wilderness but you can't ATV or snowmobile in those areas or, forbid, land an airplane. How many more acres of wilderness can we afford to have where a lot of folks are locked out? We should not give up airstrips already established for heaven's sakes and fight to the end to keep them. But we all need to be respectful of others and other uses in our wilderness or anywhere actually and fly accordingly.
 
As a Idaho pilot, I fly over the Frank fairly often, (it gets in the way) but rarely land it, as I can't ride my mountain bike once on the ground, I don't bother fish, and hiking kinda sucks. I also didn't go to Disneyland when I lived in SoCal 50 years ago. However this shakes out will have little effect on my flying, but I feel for you guys who travel thousands of miles to fly it and give it hell once a year. Then again, you may be part of the problem. The rafters being "bothered " by the noise, seems to me like non smokers being bothered by smoke (I don't smoke, it doesn't bother me, I guess I could say it does, just to feel superior to a smoker) , purely subjective. And who says the wildlife is disturbed, that's just a statement thrown out there to get people excited.
 
As a Idaho pilot, I fly over the Frank fairly often, (it gets in the way) but rarely land it, as I can't ride my mountain bike once on the ground, I don't bother fish, and hiking kinda sucks.

The guy who lands off airport more than most here doesn't fish and hates hiking. You crack me up Tom. :)
 
That's interesting as I always remembered it as part of the FAR and not part of the AIM, but it is indeed in the AIM.

This article digs into the vagueness a bit which supports would you say, but also notes there may be specific laws for certain parks (such as Yosemite, etc):

https://www.aneclecticmind.com/2012/12/20/the-rules-about-flying-over-wilderness-areas/

I just read another story about this, which stated he was cited for low flying close to people, an FAA violation. So, he flew closer than 500 feet to people…..

And yes, that “request” is vague, some would say the author hoped pilots would read it as “must”.

MTV
 
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Point of interest: I’ve flown down Big Creek many times. It is not floatable (my opinion) from the BC lodge down about 2/3’s of the way to Dewey Moore. Too many log jams. You can float from DM on down. I have NEVER seen a rafter on that section. Although, I have seen YouTube videos of one member floating between DM and Vines. I’ve been told that Kayakers will carry their craft from the confluence of the Middle Fork up to a point below Soldier Bar to paddle some class 4 rapids in that section. I’ve used my pack raft between Cabin Creek and Soldier bar.

So, just based on personal observations over the past 16 years of flying that section, I would say the chance of disturbing a rafters quiet time is extremely low. I’ve also seen very few fishermen while walking the trails and all that I did see and talk to came by airplanes.
 
The guy who lands off airport more than most here doesn't fish and hates hiking. You crack me up Tom. :)

Ha! Walking instead of riding, is like driving a car instead of flying. I took my bike into Soldier Bar once,, unloaded it, still folded, took a picture, put it back in, just so I could say I had a bike in the wilderness area. Never turned a wheel.
 
In case anyone is interested in the actual issue, and not in dragging in other stuff that isn't relevant, here's a link that states the issue and explains the lawsuit. Read the linked letter at the end where the Forest Service and Idaho DOT made it clear that the four strips in question were intended to be allowed to grow over. IF the Forest Service has, as the lawsuit says, made efforts to improve those strips, the Forest Service has violated the regulations and mission of the Wilderness. It doesn't appear this suit is trying to close down aviation in the Wilderness area and they'd have little or no chance of prevailing in that effort if they did. The link I provided earlier clearly shows the management plans of many strips within the Wilderness boundaries. Note that the four strips involved in the suit don't have management plans. Therein lies the problem. They weren't intended to be managed. To some extent all of us who appreciate preserves like this one need to have some level of respect for those who hold the government to the rules that govern the preserves. Unless you want to blindly trust government to do the right thing. I'm not one who subscribes to that.

https://wildernesswatch.org/time-to-close-airstrips-in-river-of-no-return-wilderness
 
This is not a new issue. I thought that this closure issue was settled a number of years ago. I have flown the backcountry for 37 years and camped at these strips many times (never bagged them). There is historical precedents that has kept them open. The IAA is certainly familiar with this issue.
 
Curious if the Forest Service has actually maintained these strips?

Disallowing anyone to land on the Big Four will greatly reduce the aircraft impact on these groups. NOT
 
Idaho is going to change, especially the political climate. The population explosion can’t be reversed. But even before, I mostly avoided the Central Idaho strips, because it hurts my ears to have the radio squealing all the time because people are talking all over each other. I don’t like to think about strips being closed down. I paid the extra for the Idaho aviation license plate, to support them, and another ways, too. But in anything, too many people simply ruin things.


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
 
The American country and culture that allowed back country flying no longer exists. The American gov't that has the power to stop people from backcountry flying won't exist in another ten years. Get some now or have patience for the coming post America future. Of course according to the movies a gyroplane is the preferred post civilization back country aircraft.
 
Election have consequences and this is the result. Idaho and Florida are the fastest growing states for a reason. The problem is the people on the move want to make their new home just like the **** hole they "left".
 
A little off thread, but I'm a little more optimistic about the population explosion here in the Treasure valley (not that I enjoy all the new traffic and everything else that comes with it). I have met a lot of new folks and most moved here because they felt they couldn't ever get ahead living in "another" state. They are employed, raising families and enjoy, maybe support, the traditional conservative view held by most the people.

In regards to the lawsuit, it sounds as if they have a legitimate suit. But as members here have stated, they start with simple things and then over the years, you reflect back and wonder what happened.
 
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If you read the two letters, they (the group in favor of closing the strips) misquoted the letter from the State in 1982.

Basically the state said; " not taking any physical action to make them UNUSABLE"

Then the group in favor of closing the strips used that letter against them saying basically; "Back in 1982 you said you would close the airstrips by not doing anything to make them USABLE"

Words mean things.... It wasnt a mistake, it was a tactic.

-----------

However, anyone who knows me is aware of how I feel about those on youtube. I am not a fan. They are actively destroying general aviation's reputation. They are a poor influence to younger pilots. They suggest they are "Advocates" for General Aviation and back country flying but then go and make videos of themselves willingly breaking regulations and wrecking airplanes, only to make a video on how they are professionals and that a "regular pilot" should not take these risks. Or they complain that they were targeted for enforcement. We used to police ourselves, but I'm sure I'll be the bad guy here since everyone wants to say they are friends with these clowns.


And dont get me started regarding the effects thay have had on the insurance market....


Entertainers? Yes.....

Good Pilots? No....
 
Nah, you're the "good guy in the white hat" Grant. I never heard of backcounty flying until cubs and their derivatives got so popular. Flew those 4 strips many times over the years........no issues.
Great fishing ......also a good stogie while soaking in the Lower Loon hot tub to cap the day. Maybe volunteers in the area can keep those 4 open?
 
Idaho is going to change, especially the political climate. The population explosion can’t be reversed. But even before, I mostly avoided the Central Idaho strips, because it hurts my ears to have the radio squealing all the time because people are talking all over each other. I don’t like to think about strips being closed down. I paid the extra for the Idaho aviation license plate, to support them, and another ways, too. But in anything, too many people simply ruin things.

"IDAHO, A PILOT'S PARADISE", that pretty much says it all, money well spent, I have one also, and have yet to see another one. When I got rear ended a couple years ago, (driving, not flying) I made real sure the body shop saved the crumpled plate, it's on the hangar wall now.




Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
spilering
 
I was camped out in Big Creek drainage last week and I was surprised that two different Carbon Cubs where dragging the river (tires in it) I was just below Cabin Creek fly fishing. It was mid afternoon and a red and a yellow carbon cub were playing for a good 1/2 hour low level **** that I really did not like being under, they also had a kitfox or something overhead making circles watching. I thought one of them might stall overtop of me, it made me feel uncomfortable watching them. They landed a high bank on the far side of the river. The gravel bars they were looking at were not very good for an approach in etc... This is definitely the kind of stuff that will end it for all of us. I was camped at cabin creek the first night but the mosquitoes were bad so I moved to Vines the last three nights, pretty peaceful other then the Carbon Cubs.
 
If you read the two letters, they (the group in favor of closing the strips) misquoted the letter from the State in 1982.

Basically the state said; " not taking any physical action to make them UNUSABLE"

Then the group in favor of closing the strips used that letter against them saying basically; "Back in 1982 you said you would close the airstrips by not doing anything to make them USABLE"

Words mean things.... It wasnt a mistake, it was a tactic.

-----------

However, anyone who knows me is aware of how I feel about those on youtube. I am not a fan. They are actively destroying general aviation's reputation. They are a poor influence to younger pilots. They suggest they are "Advocates" for General Aviation and back country flying but then go and make videos of themselves willingly breaking regulations and wrecking airplanes, only to make a video on how they are professionals and that a "regular pilot" should not take these risks. Or they complain that they were targeted for enforcement. We used to police ourselves, but I'm sure I'll be the bad guy here since everyone wants to say they are friends with these clowns.


And dont get me started regarding the effects thay have had on the insurance market....


Entertainers? Yes.....

Good Pilots? No....

Geeze, you reminded me that I am actually on Youtube with my HDHP stuff... Please don't classify me with some of the other folks.

Today I made some flights form base to remote mountain lakes. Just normal working stuff, through narrow passes in wind, over pointed ridges, more pass flying, descent over sheep country and land on a remote lake.

A YouTube video would most likely make some folks speechless seeing the terrain. I remind myself that I get paid to fly in the Wrangell St. Elias National Park and Preserve. My goal is not to get 'hits', but to bring the boss's plane and customers back every day happy and healthy.

It was said before: to much of a good thing...
 
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