Landes 2500 rigging for 3 inch gear

[BC12D-4-85]

Gary,

thats interesting. I had AWB 2500s on my 170, and I’m trying to imagine how they could go nose down very far with those riggers installed, unless a rigger broke. Keep us posted with more info when you get it.

MTV

Yes not to interfere with the ongoing discovery process but the pilot mentioned to another pilot that while descending ~125 and (I assume) some factor caused the nose to drop faster than a stall. Downward ski deflection? Tail blanking? Extended bottoms? Weak riggers? The TCDS doesn't require a Vne placard unlike some other designs.

 

[stewartb]

If that's the plane? His skis look too nose down in the picture. In flight they'd be really nose down.

 

[BC12D-4-85]

Apologies for the drift. Rigging is important for all.

Stewart, possibly. Some privacy may be in order until it's resolved what actually happened. I posted this for discussion and maybe to generate some inspection if there's similar setups out there.

Here's a discussion regarding rigging those skis. See Page 3 for post on angles: http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11729

TCDS A-799 lists them under Item 208: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/51dcd703defaa00486257243006811e2/$FILE/A-799.pdf

Gary

 

[Randyk]

Gary,

thats interesting. I had AWB 2500s on my 170, and I’m trying to imagine how they could go nose down very far with those riggers installed, unless a rigger broke. Keep us posted with more info when you get it.

MTV

Cessna gear legs will bend and twist more that one might think. I was flying a 185 with FliLite 4000's in a cruise descent at about 140 kts and the right ski/leg tucked and banged against the fuselage at a 90 degree angle repeatedly until I was able to slow to 80 kts, losing 4,000' in the process. It was pretty exciting. Come to find out, the yoke was torqued and held the ski at a slight nose down and toed in attitude when the skis were in the down position. There's a lot more to that story, but the point is that just because the skis look OK on the ground doesn't mean they are OK in all phases of flight.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Yes not to interfere with the ongoing discovery process but the pilot mentioned to another pilot that while descending ~125 and (I assume) some factor caused the nose to drop faster than a stall. Downward ski deflection? Tail blanking? Extended bottoms? Weak riggers? The TCDS doesn't require a Vne placard unlike some other designs.

No springs or anything? The cables aren’t tight too. Is that how those are installed?


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[BC12D-4-85]

MTV will know more having owned a set on his former 170. How they work is discussed here: http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11729 There's a spring loaded positioner over the forward tunnel. Never dealt with one but apparently they are somewhat adjustable for angle via the positioner and axle mount. Made for L-19's and incorporated by Cessna on the 170 TCDS A-799. The cables are just in case on the pic. But, there is more than one ski model and installation drawings listed in the TCDS. Here's a pic of another installation that used springs. May be another type of ski.

I should have started a new thread and hope this doesn't sidetrack too much.

Gary

 

[Randyk]

No springs or anything? The cables aren’t tight too. Is that how those are installed?


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You adjust the riggers for angle. The cables are only for restricting travel if the rigger fails.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Interesting I put some 3200’s on a 180 and even level it was a bear to get the forward spring attached. If I remember right there was a spring or bungee on the rear cable. They were previously installed on that airplane so no changes in the rigging


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[DENNY]

The springs are in the shock like tube on the outside of the tunnel, you can adjust the tension when you put them on. The cables front and rear limit travel.
DENNY

 

[Randyk]

Interesting I put some 3200’s on a 180 and even level it was a bear to get the forward spring attached. If I remember right there was a spring or bungee on the rear cable. They were previously installed on that airplane so no changes in the rigging


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Put the ski on the axle, attach the front cable and spring and then pump the ski down to attach the rear cable(s). Easy peasy.

 

[BC12D-4-85]

I'll bet someone will be looking for installation prints and specs soon. Declaring an emergency after an in-flight problem and rolling heavy iron at an airport in response tends to bring out the inspectors. I was there just after and talked with security so it happened.

Gary

 

[stewartb]

Interesting I put some 3200’s on a 180 and even level it was a bear to get the forward spring attached. If I remember right there was a spring or bungee on the rear cable. They were previously installed on that airplane so no changes in the rigging


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Fluidynes are very different skis. And really easy to install once you learn how.

 

[mike mcs repair]

No springs or anything? The cables aren’t tight too. Is that how those are installed?


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we also Install a front spring, the riggers rip out of ski, don't trust them...

 

[mike mcs repair]

as to where to set them technically you cannot get them correct... you set the riggers so the tail is just clear of the ground in wheel position on a cub...(tail actually would drag in correct position...) been years since I set up a set

 

[mike mcs repair]

I have CAD drawings of mounting brackets for large tires & 2500's I used to make(someone else design that I drew up).... unfortunately it's saved in .TCW file from turboCAD(I don't think I have that program anymore)... anyone have a way of opening them and converting to something like .DXF so i can open them in macdraft pro??? I can post them here if anyone is interested

 

[mvivion]

Only the AWB 2500A skis are approved on 8.50 tires. That said, there seem to be some 2500sout there with 8.50s. Those tires permit you to rig the skis more nose up without the heels dragging. Much better angle.

MTV

 

[mike mcs repair]

Only the AWB 2500A skis are approved on 8.50 tires. That said, there seem to be some 2500sout there with 8.50s. Those tires permit you to rig the skis more nose up without the heels dragging. Much better angle.

MTV

the brackets I made(from someone else's design) allowed 26" tires easily (some used 29" allowing wheel to stick under ski a touch, in ski position)

 

[mvivion]

the brackets I made(from someone else's design) allowed 26" tires easily (some used 29" allowing wheel to stick under ski a touch, in ski position)

Yes, FWS Cubs ran those skis with 25 inch Air Wheels with long arms. Not sure if any of those were approved. My 2500s ran 8.50s easily.

MTV

 

[mike mcs repair]

Yes, FWS Cubs ran those skis with 25 inch Air Wheels with long arms. Not sure if any of those were approved. My 2500s ran 8.50s easily.MTV

this is with the normal arms on a 2500B, field approved