Hello all I have a slight problem with my cuffed wing on my cub and I am hoping some one can help me out. What I have is extended wings with wing tips and a cuff of corse. My problem is when I get to the stall I have no warning, no shake no slop in control and it's not just me I let another pilot fly with me and it was a big surprise to them to when it all happened. I am wondering has any one ever added VG's to a cuff? I am not looking to go slower, I'm looking for a tattle tail to let me know that I'm coming into the stall.
Improving a cuffed wing/ no warning before stall
- Thread starter Bulawa
- Start date
Fortysix12
Registered User
RanchAero Grand Vista, Brooksville
Approach stall or departure stall? Does your wing have any washout? I'd document the washout first if you are looking for a warning.
pa11driver
Registered User
I've flown a cuffed wing pacer with vg's. I never flew it without the vg's with the cuff, but it had typical stall characteristics with vg's. A gentle mush power off with a gentle break. Power on was standard as well.
PerryB
FRIEND
Chico, CA
Do you have flaps? I could see a cub with no flaps and no twist in the wing having a very abrupt stall. In this case I would install VG's on the outer 1/2 to 2/3 of each wing so when it stalls the root lets go first and the outboard region continues to provide lift and aileron control.
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bob turner
Registered User
I flew the Charlie Center wing. At very low speeds, once in a while, I would lose aileron control. "They" say that VGs would have fixed that.
sierra bravo
Registered User
Does your mechanic know this? Sounds like you need to have your rigging checked.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
you are slip/skidding some... make sure fin is set properly & make sure the ball agrees with the wings when wings equally level span wise? as with a digital level at strut area(per rigging instructions) in level flight position ball should be centered... if not rotate it till ball is centered(thats why turn and bank mounting holes are usually curved slots.. your panel might be mounted crooked a bit...)
http://www.microaero.com used to make a set of VG's for the cuffed wing
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
So you are stating that the wing quits flying and drops? Is this what you are experiencing? What is your airspeed? Where is the stick? Are you flaring? Is the nose dropping also when it quits flying. You aren't really giving out much info about what is going on.....
When I'm in the flare. Stick is neutral I guess I think I'm around 38 or 40. Like I said I'm not wanting to become any slower I'm just wondering if there is something I can add to the cuff to give me a warning that I'm getting slow like vibration or a slight shake. Would vg's give me that feeling? The plane flys great I can trim it out and let go doesn't go left or right.
Jimscub
Registered User
Cochrane, Ontario,Canada
All things being equal the left wing should drop first if rigging etc is ok. The culprit is that big right hand turning prop. There are many factors that cause the left wing to drop but the biggest one in my view is the prop turns right so the aircraft rolls left. If your still not convinced Try a stall with about 1700rpm. There'll be no doubt about what wing is gonna drop first,and remember ,power off ,stick forward abruptly and opposite rudder.My two cent thanks for reading.
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
seen and fixed this before... reread what I said.....
you can rig it to fly hands off level & yet you are (skid/slipping?) at same time... which makes top speed slower and bottom speed faster, and it falls off on a wing..... quite common...
bob turner
Registered User
Well, the plot thickens. I thought you were not happy with the stall characteristics in flight.
In the landing flare, the one I flew several times raised a wing, and I found the ailerons ineffective. These were full stall landings, tailwheel first. The rudder still worked just fine - had the owner kept it, we were going to see if we could do it again, dump the flaps, and make it settle down. I do not believe it was a rigging problem, although I recall the aircraft as not perfectly rigged. A stock Cub has aileron control right through the stall.
I thought you were talking about violent stall characteristics when practicing stalls at altitude. Losing aileron control before the stall can result in interesting flight.
In the landing flare, the one I flew several times raised a wing, and I found the ailerons ineffective. These were full stall landings, tailwheel first. The rudder still worked just fine - had the owner kept it, we were going to see if we could do it again, dump the flaps, and make it settle down. I do not believe it was a rigging problem, although I recall the aircraft as not perfectly rigged. A stock Cub has aileron control right through the stall.
I thought you were talking about violent stall characteristics when practicing stalls at altitude. Losing aileron control before the stall can result in interesting flight.
mvivion
FOUNDER
Bozeman,MT
Read this, then follow Mike's instructions....this very much sounds like a rigging problem. And, no, VG's will not create a pre stall buffet where one doesn't exist without them.
MTV
Fortysix12
Registered User
RanchAero Grand Vista, Brooksville
Sounding more like a tall stall or lack of pitch authority. Cuffed wings fly really slow and the only way to get maximum performance from them is with power. Check the wash out for sure.
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bob turner
Registered User
Is this a Center wing? If so, are the original poster and I the only folks who have encountered this problem? I agree - a cuffed wing on a C-180 can be a happy thing at very slow speed. I am familiar with rigging problems, and what I experienced was not rigging.
For me, out of maybe fifty landings it happened only twice. It was interesting, but not particularly dangerous. I am pleased that it did not happen in a gusty crosswind - one really does need aileron authority in crosswinds.
For me, out of maybe fifty landings it happened only twice. It was interesting, but not particularly dangerous. I am pleased that it did not happen in a gusty crosswind - one really does need aileron authority in crosswinds.
reliableflyer
Registered User
Seldovia, Alaska
My 12 with an 18 wings and a cuff gave plenty of stall warning in the form of sloppy controls as I approached the stall. I added VG's and it was no different, still plenty of indication prior. The indication in the form of increasingly sloppy controls is later than in a standard cub without the cuff and fences but the same sloppy controls.
bigrock
Registered User
Henderson, Texas
I agree with the tail stall theory. I had the same problem with my plane suddenly dropping out from under me before the stick was all the way back while trying to bleed off remaining airspeed in the flair. I added some weight in the tail because it was nose heavy and added VG's to the wing and tail and it went away.
When we fly our cubs with extended wing, gurney flap, cuff, VG's, extended aileron and Charlie Center tips there is no stall warning. The airplane will just very slowly decend with the stick locked back and just slight forward pressure will fly away at low power. You might not ever get a buffet at stall. Sometimes on landing we have to blip the throttle to get the tail down/nose up to three point.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Your loaded CG is forward.
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
And / or your tail is stalling....
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Yes, my point on the forward CG is that you do not have enough up elevator authority to get into the buffet/stall angle of attack regime of the wing. That is why you are getting a sink rate without the stall break. IF the CG was towards the rear limit, you would get the buffet/stall break. My Cub refused to spin until I got the CG at the rear limit because the elevator did not have enough authority to force it to stall. All it would do is a tight steep spiral at increasing speeds. Loaded CG makes more difference than most seem to think.
