Jonnyo
Registered User
Fairbanks, Ak
sounds like the pacer/tripacer setup... interconnected
Mike,
How are pacer/tripacer ailerons and rudder interconnected?
Thank you.
sounds like the pacer/tripacer setup... interconnected
How are pacer/tripacer ailerons and rudder interconnected?
The rudder and aileron cables are linked by small sections of cable. The interconnect cables are swaged at each end onto the rudder and aileron cable that should move together. They are visible behind the aft baggage area. In the middle of each interconnect cable is a spring that allows the pilot to overcome the connection.
This must be FAA approved, either an STC, field approval or something else. It may have been approved on any Cub type long wing. Any ideas??
In looking at this old thread, I noticed this comment from Speedo on adverse yaw. I agree with him on rudder use. Many, if not most pilots are lax in their rudder use. Particularly those who learned to fly in more modern airplanes which have had most of the adverse yaw engineered out of them. Adverse yaw, the tendency of the nose to move opposite of the direction of aileron induced bank, is caused by the drag of the down aileron. This brings the question, would there be less adverse yaw if there was less aileron area or span to generate that yaw force? A stock Cub aileron has 102-1/8" of span (length). My ailerons in these photos have 83-1/4" span. There is adverse yaw in this Cub, but not enough to noticeably require a lot of rudder to compensate. This Cub has never indicated to me that it lacks roll control effectiveness at low speeds. Also you'll notice there is a gap seal on the right aileron and none on the left. I did this to attempt to determine if there would be more or less roll control in one direction or the other. I could find nothing. I didn't bother to remove the gap seal nor to add the other. Also this wing has a smooth clean leading edge. One thing which I attribute to the smooth and adequate roll response is ball bearings in all the pullies and tight aileron cables. When the cables are flown loose in order to lighten the stick forces, the first motion of the stick is only taking up the slack in the cable. And because of this, there is not enough stick travel to pull the aileron to it's stops. Thus less than desired roll control effectiveness.Pete, you pose an interesting question, and it makes me think about adverse yaw. When you're slow aren't you typically nose high, and doesn't one typically need to use lots of rudder to counteract adverse yaw? I wonder, if someone wants more aileron for more roll, don't they also want more rudder? Maybe they don't even need more aileron - maybe they need to use their rudder more. It's been my observation that when pilots get slow and want to turn that they use the aileron but very often forget the rudder (and I'm quite guilty of this myself), so my thought would be to confirm that the person wanting more aileron first ensures that he's using the rudder.
Gap seals the same as on the flap does help the aileron response.
Robertson Stol kit's on Cessna's doo aileron gap seals as well.
We have experimented with VG's on the flaps with very good results , but I would be more cautious on Ailerons.
Where did you place the VGs on the flap and are your flaps the stock length?We have experimented with VG's on the flaps with very good results , but I would be more cautious on Ailerons.
I too would like to hear about these results.We have experimented with VG's on the flaps with very good results , but I would be more cautious on Ailerons.
A proper gap seal on the flaps is the same as a slot on the leading edge of the wing. The flap gap seal prevents flow separation on the flap which I have proven with yarn tassels. You don't have the gap on your Patrol flaps unless you have made an alteration.I too would like to hear about these results.
I’ve pondered adding VG’s to the front curve of the flaps, where they would “roll out” at the last notch or two of flaps, and otherwise would be in the cove not affecting airflow. To do this meant not having a good gap seal there.
A miscommunication. I assumed Dog was talking about a Piper slotted flap. Your Patrol's hinged flaps are a different story. I do expect a flow separation there and it's possible that placing VGs on the forward edge of the flap may help.Pete you’re saying that there is no separation on nearly 50 deg of flaps on the 9’ barn door flaps of a Patrol? I find that hard to understand?
With the AOA I see prior to losing lift I can’t imagine the air sticking to a near vertical flap surface at attitude.
I second that thats where gap seals VG's on the tail and ailerons come in.One caution with deep STOL mods....make sure rudder, elevator, and stabilizer control remain effective at all airspeeds and CG. That's far easier to say than do without some practice at safe altitude. Certification Standards can describe the required tests.
Gary