HIGHT SPEED TURNS ON FLOATS

[fireball111]

When my float instructor was training me for float rating he told me not to do any sharp turns on the water when taking off or landing with floats, i have seen and read some post on the subject but not certain how to make the hight speed tight turns , do i just use rudder to turn or do sorta fly it lifting right wing a little to turn left ?I also was sitting in the back once when younger doing a turning take off from a very small lake and we started to skip and slide was not a good feeling.the pilot aborted the take off and we did it again without skipping and took off. sorta scared to try it. Any adv for me so i can use the j turn take off or hight speed turning take off when getting out short twisting places.

 

[Backcast]

Start with a big lake on a calm 5kt day and get used to being on the step. Do step turns till you are so sick of doing them you can't take it anymore. Get used to using a combination of power/stick. Get used to the hydrodynamics of your floats and how they act. The more comfortable you are on step the better you will get at making the turns tighter. Don't bury the inside float! After practicing and practicing it finally dawned on me that my airplane has a certain airspeed sweet spot where it is on the water, close to flight but not flying, and a drop off airspeed where it pulls down off the step and wants to plow. There was an island on my last lake that I used to practice step taxi turning around. You eventually get to the point where you can do a full 360 and just depart into the wind. Remember water rudder up, stick into the wind. Some of the guys here I'm sure will have even better advice. It's like crosswinds, sux to practice them till you get good at it, once you get good at it being on step is fun. Then you transition to doing spot landings once you are comfortable on the step.
Tedd

 

[sniffler]

time for a new instructor

First find a new instructor.

Reminds me of one of the kid CFIs I first flew with, he was scared to death of stalls and it would telegraph right through the controls to me a new student, now I was scarred to death convinced that if the wing even shuttered it was lights out, game over. Wasn't until I flew with a good instructor and did stalls and spin entry that it came together and I learned what stalls are, to respect them, but you can survive.

Someone told me for floats and tailwheel you want as old of a CFI as you can find, mine were in their 70's and have forgotten more than I will ever know.

Spend a couple of hours with a good instructor to get over the odd feeling of yaw and to fully understand why you don't turn with wind to the inside of the turn.

Then like Tedd said, practice practice practice, once you get it down it's another tool in the belt, and way fun.

Randi

 

[180Marty]

I've been lucky to fly with Charlie Hammonds down in Houma LA. We went out in his 185 on 3730 Wip amphibs and did tight turns. The lake we were in had stakes for fish traps or something so it made for an obstacle coarse. It's been a couple of years but it seems I remember aileron into the wind and kinda walk the rudder pedals---kinda like making a sharper cut and then backing off a bit. I tended to want to get too slow. I was amazed at how there were times I thought we should go on the outside of an obstacle and we just made a sharper turn and went inside. Was pretty fun and don't think I'd have the nerve to do some of those turns by myself.

 

[aktango58]

The inside float wants to fly, it is the outside float you need to worry about...

First, all comments are should be considered worth the price you pay me

If you are not proficient in the plane, stop reading, and go practice...

Step turns, (both floats in water), put down and side force on the outside float. If you are turning downwind to upwind, you will have more down/side force on the float from the cross wind. If it is much wind, you are in the wrong spot! How much wind... experience tells you- every plane is different.

Book says lift water rudders... but if you really are putting the turn in, they are helpful down.

When you slide, or skip, you are going to fast, and need to lift the outside float, or slow down the speed, or turn rate.

put full alieron into the turn. Use rudders to compensate. (book says full ball deflection max). Depending on the floats and plane, (aquas turn like they are on rails), you can really crank in a turn with rudder. It is all by feel. (tighten your seat belt).

Passengers hate step turns.

Do not practice on a lake with lots of boats, gets to rough and you will skip, if a float grabs on a skip, you can fold it under.

I like to use 25mph minimum in the cub, and will often be in a turn through liftoff. It takes more power to turn than to go strait, so add some as you enter.

At some point, if you get good, you can put full alieron in before your power, and do the entire takeoff in a turn- plow, step and lift off. Amazing how small a lake you can use doing that, and yes, you will lift one float at some point in the turn.

Lift rudders before you land.

 

[fireball111]

Turns

Hi guys was taking off in the turn from river my outside float was flying approx 9 or 12 inchs obove water speed was approx 43 indicated and the inside one was still touching water. The person that watched me take off said i maid almost the hole turn approx 100 feet on one float (inside)before taking off. I have done this on several other accasions also .is this procedure ok and safe ?? Was flying the airplane and everything felt good

 

[aktango58]

Only for experienced pilots that are proficient!!!!


Remember, when you hit a wake, (even your own) you will lose the control and the skip will come, so be wary when cutting a wake, I like to slow just a bit before the wake, or cut power for a blip or two, and it holds over the wake...


Keep practicing. One float up is as tight as she will go... you can go round and round on one float if you are carefull and smart about it.

 

[King Brown]

high speed turns on floats

I don't "do" high speed turns on floats. I use only small lakes because that's where the trout are and have never been handicapped by standard take-offs in a Cub from J3 to SC.

 

[Dave Calkins]

High speed is a relative term, but I can guess what you mean. You mean slower than flying speed, and as tight a turn as possible.

Full aileron into the turn, balance pitch and power to avert a hobby-horse. The sideways "G's" will be uncomfortable, probably limiting how hard you perform this until you get accustomed to it. Use caution with ANY chop or ripples. Glassy water is the only place to practice this when a newbie. This will assume zero wind, as you do not want to do a very tight turn from wind at your tail to wind on the nose.

This is not for float pilots who are unable to step taxi at 'proper' (slow) speeds in a stable, un-hobby-horse manner.

Again, instructing piloting technique over the www. is a bad way to learn or teach.

You can really screw up, and never know why or what hit you, and no one there to say 'no', or 'not like that, like this'. It's kindof like 'bathroom' reading. It's a worthy 'filler' for thought, but not a substitue for supervised instruction.

D

 

[mvivion]

What Dave said.

MTV

 

[Chuck E.]

You can really screw up, and never know why or what hit you, and no one there to say 'no', or 'not like that, like this'. It's kindof like 'bathroom' reading. It's a worthy 'filler' for thought, but not a substitue for supervised instruction.

That about sums it up.

 

[fireball111]

HIGHT SPEED

I have read many post on this site some good some not so good and do know that there is very knowlegable and smart people on this site and alway aprecita all the help i can get even if it is on the www. i have also had this face on many time since i started flying. Taking off in a turn(river bend) would be my second question thanks again guys

 

[aktango58]

Learn step turns, and what radius it takes to turn in your comfort level.

Then remember that the speed of the water will carry you down river quicker, requiring a tighter turn if going down; or a less tight turn if going up...

If you have the potential for boat traffic, (or expect it on busy rivers), you need to consider visibility forward to keep from having more moments.

Dave, you deserve a Cigar, very eloquent.

 

[mvivion]

Then remember that the speed of the water will carry you down river quicker, requiring a tighter turn if going down; or a less tight turn if going up...

George,

Here we go with the downcurrent turn thing again .

MTV

 

[Torch]

I practice quite often. Not just step taxiing but just about anything I can think of in the plane. In flying it is proficiency that will get you where you want to be. Lots of great advice here but be careful and practice a bunch. If you do that you will probably get good at what your trying to do. Oh, start off with some good instruction then practice.

 

[aktango58]

did my first float trip of the season...

Some thoughts I had as I put the chicken through her paces :lol:

You can often 'cheat' on the takeoff run by quartering, or even going cross wind in a light wind and then rolling/turning into the wind and lifting the float out in the turn, makes the lake a little longer.

Ball to the edge is standard for teaching... from there you are in the 'proficiency only' zone...

Even a little wave, (four inches) can make the plane skip at higher speed, if you want to continue to accelerate through a turn, not just power back in the stip turn, and keep it tight... the outside float will need to come out of the water... Pay attention there things may happen fast and you will fly.

Find an instructor to ride with you... No, not the kid in the office building time. Find the crotchety old guy that told the faa he didn't need no stinking ...

you get the point.

Go to a big lake, start step truning around the outside. Even do right turns, (needed if you have long flap handles). The work tighter turns and keep coming in until you begin losing the step or feel it wanting to skip.

Do it on a calm day

Have fun.