Got brakes?

[Crash]

I just installed new Dakota Cub master cylinders after removing my Scott master cylinders with North River booster conversions. Wow, the Dakota cylinders have at least twice the braking power then the old "booster" brake masters had. Almost went up on the nose the first landing I used them on. They will lock and slide 30" tundra tires at any speed on gravel. Keep an eye on this the first few landings if you install Dakota Cub cylinders. Crash

http://www.dakotacub.com/new_page_43.htm

 

[Torch]

Crash, I have heard of numerous Cubs/cub type aircraft going up on their noses after upgrading the brakes. Good advice to watch out for the braking performance after the upgrade. We have a prop off of one of the airplanes in the FSS at Kotzebue. Guy put the super brakes on his airplane and went up on his nose while taxiing for takeoff. He said he was testing the new brakes. I will get a digicam of the prop on the wall next time I am there next week.

 

[PA-12 Lover]

Crash, thanks for the heads up. I am in process of replacing my North River with Dakota as well. I thought the North River were a huge improvement over the original. Anybody out there interested in a set of North River Master cylinders? I don't know if the STC is transferable or not.

 

[Jon B.]

Crash stated: "They will lock and slide 30" tundra tires at any speed on gravel."

I landed on a gravel, um, er, strip, yesterday and, when I applied the brakes, I immediately thought I had picked up a stone in a caliper. I heard a loud 'grinding' sound. With a headset on, it was muffled and indistinct, but loud.

Upon returning to my hangar, I checked both brakes but found no apparent signs of rocks or anything else. I'm wondering if what I heard was simply a wheel (or two) sliding in the gravel. The surface was hard, with a thin layer of loose stuff on top. Is that likely? This was my first full-stop landing on that type of surface.

The K-A Champ has Cleveland (single-puck) discs and 7.00 tires. The brakes will hold at full power on a sticky surface; on grass, she'll slide the tires.

Jon B.

 

[sj]

I have had the Dakota brakes for about 8 months now, they are the cat's meow. I would probably consider the Steve's Aircraft brakes next time around since it is a much easier upgrade, but I had already bought the Dakotas before he came out with them.

In my observation of more than one tail really high landing and several takeoff situations, it seems like when the tail is going up, up, up, people forget to just let go of the brakes and pull back on the stick (depending on the wind), in sticky stuff, it seems like a blast of power could help, but most of the ones I have seen or heard about have been somehow brake related.

I like having good powerful brakes, and I use them a lot. When you lock the brakes on 31" bushwheels on snow, you actually go faster...

sj

 

[ksecub]

I was under the impression that North River, Steve's, and Dakota brakes used the same diameter piston. The hydraulic pressure = the applied force / the piston area. In order for the Dakota cylinder to have more braking power (more hydraulic pressure), the Dakota piston must have a smaller diameter. Can anyone confirm this? If the Dakota cylinders do have a smaller diameter, the pedal throw would need to be increased in order to make up for the reduced volume. Has anyone experienced more pedal throw with the Dakota cylinders. The reason I am asking is because I am in the market for some new cylinders and I want to buy the ones with the smallest diameter (highest pressure).

Is there much pedal play prior to the pedal firming up? In other words, do you need to push the pedal further with these vented cylinders than required with the North River cylinders. There theoretically needs to be some dead zone in the piston stroke in order to vent the cylinder, is it noticeable?

Both systems advertise direct replacement or compatable with the Scott system. I currently have North River cylinders with Scott parking brakes. Will I need to modify my brake lines in any way (I already have high pressure lines)?

It appears that the Dakota system is a better buy, for $1076 you get both the pedal and the cylinder. With Steve's, you only get the cylinder for $800. However, assuming you already have the Scott pedals, Steve's would be a cheaper retro fit.

 

[Christina Young]

I just installed new Dakota Cub master cylinders after removing my Scott master cylinders with North River booster conversions. Wow, the Dakota cylinders have at least twice the braking power then the old "booster" brake masters had. Almost went up on the nose the first landing I used them on. They will lock and slide 30" tundra tires at any speed on gravel. Keep an eye on this the first few landings if you install Dakota Cub cylinders. Crash

http://www.dakotacub.com/new_page_43.htm

Crash, I'm glad you posted this, I'm getting new brake boosters installed this week (my plane had no boosters, and going to 31" tires I now have almost no braking power!).

I deliberately stayed away from these because I'm scared of the nose over scenario you describe! I instead went with the CC brake boosters because I figured that I can just let out a little fluid when I first start out to get used to them and work my way up. I know they aren't nearly as strong, but I'm not sure I really need or am ready for super strong ones like the Dakotas.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Sometimes you will need to lengthen the lines with Steve's. If I am not mistaken they all have the same piston diameter. Steve's can be installed without having holes under the floor boards. Christina the problem you will find with the non-vented is the change in pressure between temperature and altitude changes.

 

[mvivion]

Good brakes are always a wake up call to Cub pilots .

One thing with any brake system is to ensure that the brakes aren't set up a little too tight. Do that, and several landings for practice, and as the brakes drag just a little, they heat up. As they heat up, they expand. Pretty soon.......

Another scenario with Some of these powerful brake systems: Someone puts an extended heater hose on their front seat heat, or the Atlee heat robber. Heater hose points right at one or the other master cylinder. Fire the plane up at, say 0 degrees, and go out for a little practice. Watch the tires on takeoff!!!! If they don't spin freely after each takeoff, get on the ground very carefully. Heat up the brake cylinder, it expands, applying brake. Same scenario then: heat up the brake cause its dragging, and voila .

Don't be afraid of effective brakes, just learn to set them up right.

That's one of the amusing complaints I've heard about the Husky: "Wow, those brakes are really powerful!".

And, that's bad??

MTV

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Steve)]

That is why I came up with the vented brake cylinder. Was tired of either no brake, or way to much. The internal check valve allows the expanded fluid to bypass back into the cylinder, yet it stays full to operate good. The benefit is instant brake release on take off, and good braking at touchdown, no matter how many touch and goes.

 

[ag-pilot]

brakes

Christina, Go with the vented system. I had been running the boosters like CC sells for 15 years and you have good brakes as long as you keep playing with the fluid level. With the Steves that I put on 6 months ago I have not touched them since and the pedal feel is always the same so you get used to how hard you can get on um and not get any dirt on the windshield. I would never go back.
Steve P is right you do have to lengthen the brake hoses from the master to the top of the gear leg. Or you can just do like I did and have Dan's make you up a set of Stainless flex lines that go all the way from the master cylinder to the caliper. That way you get rid of some fittings. To top it all off Steve is a GREAT guy to do business with.
Dave

 

[Gary Reeves]

When I went from wheel skiis to the bushwheels, I did not have much right brake. To compensate I lowered the tire pressure in the right to give more surface friction and it worked well enough to get us by the mushy season.

One of my favorite really short landings is what I call a "Chuck". Lock the brakes and bounce on the landing on gravel or snow, or ice. Release and the bounce will turn into a stop on the return.

With one brake good and one fair and one tire low to compensate, you better have both off on the return.

I went for a few landings with no right brake. We should learn how to fly these cubs with no brakes- even for the taxi turns- or turn left a lot..

Actually, generally I never use the brakes unless it is to do a taxi turn; so what is the big deal about brakes?

GR
outside with a computer instead of a stick for a few days