skywagon8a
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Flying amphibs on land
- Thread starter The Kid
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Do you have room in the wheel well with that gear arrangement to install a larger diameter wheel and tire? This is a case where bigger is better.
An experimental CC on Clamar amphibs got stuck on my ramp because the keels were too low to the ground. We had to manhandle it around to get it back in the water. I didn't look underneath so don't know what it had for wheels. The angle change from the concrete to the turf where it got stuck is not great. No other amphib has ever had an issue here.
Olibuilt
MEMBER
Montreal, Canada
My red Cub is going on Clamar 2180 amphibs as soon I receive the pair I ordered. Here is a picture of Clamar. I only see 5. on the picture. So they are 5.00 x 5 I assume.
I hope the wheels and brake will be enough for my needs.
Attachments
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Those are double puck brakes. They should work fine as long as you have a high pressure master cylinder.
It also looks as though the shock spring tension is adjustable. Perhaps the set which got stuck on my ramp needed to be adjusted?
Dan Gervae
FRIEND
Upper Peninsula of Michigan
I can go to 5:00-5 according to this report on the Meads
View attachment Screenshot 2022-03-12 092023.png
View attachment Screenshot 2022-03-12 092023.png
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
That's good. I haven't looked into various 5" tire sizes. Perhaps you could find one which is wider and with more diameter? Different brands have different dimensions.
The nose tires on my EDO 3500s were 5:00-5. Notice the difference in shape of these two. The first one has a wider footprint.
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aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Not much cub amphibious time, but flew working planes with them, and worked around other companies that had lots of amphibs...
Bottom line is that you can 'do' an amazing amount of taxing on hard beaches, hard landings, short strips, rough and soft with them- until it is a problem.
I had a gust drop me on the runway once in the 185, only dropped about 6" then the nose came down hard- front forks were old and needed replaced after that landing. I watched a cub amphibious that had gravel runway use taxi into the ramp and the front tires came apart. I also recall having to help one across a rough ramp due to it sinking in and nose wheels getting stuck.
Attach points wear and vibrate, fittings and moving parts take a beating.
Smooth landings extend the life of the wheel gear, hard to be smooth with limited space. Gentle touching of the nose wheels is very important for longevity.
I guess what I am trying to say is that my take on the issue is that you can probably use your strip and all will go well for a time. Then one day you will have a nose tire fail and sink in, or a rear strut collapse when you hit a little hard, then may lose directional control and off the side you go. Or on take off you will sink in just a tad, adding drag, get a touch of tailwind and at the end you won't climb quite enough.
Sometimes you have to take the 99% rule to heart- 99% of the time you are good, which means you will have an issue every 100 landings or so.:evil:
Bottom line is that you can 'do' an amazing amount of taxing on hard beaches, hard landings, short strips, rough and soft with them- until it is a problem.
I had a gust drop me on the runway once in the 185, only dropped about 6" then the nose came down hard- front forks were old and needed replaced after that landing. I watched a cub amphibious that had gravel runway use taxi into the ramp and the front tires came apart. I also recall having to help one across a rough ramp due to it sinking in and nose wheels getting stuck.
Attach points wear and vibrate, fittings and moving parts take a beating.
Smooth landings extend the life of the wheel gear, hard to be smooth with limited space. Gentle touching of the nose wheels is very important for longevity.
I guess what I am trying to say is that my take on the issue is that you can probably use your strip and all will go well for a time. Then one day you will have a nose tire fail and sink in, or a rear strut collapse when you hit a little hard, then may lose directional control and off the side you go. Or on take off you will sink in just a tad, adding drag, get a touch of tailwind and at the end you won't climb quite enough.
Sometimes you have to take the 99% rule to heart- 99% of the time you are good, which means you will have an issue every 100 landings or so.:evil:
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Might be a good time for him to brush up on landing control in tight spaces. Just accepting a hard landing each time is not maximum best proficiency.
stid2677
SPONSOR
One word of caution, be mindful of gravel runways. We had the brake bleed values broke off the brake caliper twice by gravel hitting them. We removed the bleeders and have installed plugs instead. Always check brakes before landing and on runout, if you loose brakes or they are soft on the check, give her the whip, pump up the wheels and go land on water. Our home gravel strip has a slight hump and if you get off center without differential braking you are in for a ride.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Couldn't you rotate the brakes up 90 degrees to avoid that issue?
stid2677
SPONSOR
That would expose the fitting and brake line to the gravel instead of the the plug,, right? I am interested in the possibility of adding a second rotor and caliper. Would love to see pictures of that setup.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
To answer your question yes or no, I would need to see a picture. For what I am thinking, the answer would be no. To add the second rotor is just a mirror image of what you have. Just put a T where the brake line comes through the bulkhead instead of the straight fitting.
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
So how do you bleed the brakes-- just crack the plugs?
That would rule out bleeding from the bottom up,
which is my preferred way to do it.
stid2677
SPONSOR
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
Here is a photo of the brakes on our JHS 339 Amphibs
Do you have two calipers per float?
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stid2677
SPONSOR
Only one, on the inside, of both wheels.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I see now, you can not rotate 90*. There isn't space to reposition the caliper. Perhaps you could alter the mount plate so that you could rotate 45*? That might help. I don't see an issue with your bleeding from below and installing a plug after. You ought to be able to make it done quickly without letting air in. In that situation, fluid will drip out the hole while you're changing the fitting. With fluid dripping out, air will not be "dripping" in because there will be some head pressure on the fluid.
Yours is a one off, that was my idea.
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stid2677
SPONSOR
We have run the plugs for years,, takes 2 to bleed them,, fill from the bottom until it overflows, then the person at the brake master, holds a finger on the filler, then the lower person installs the plug, the vacuum keeps it from dipping, once the master is capped, the plug is loosen a bit and brake pedal pressure pushes any air trapped at the plug.
It was Whips that I was considering. Do they have the oil/air shocks on all four or just two wheels? When I drop it in, it isn't on purpose. Something was off in my method. Always trying to do it perfectly but, somehow, it doesn't always work out that way (actually most of the time) A little tail wind, elk coming out on the runway, an airplane that is 300 lbs heavier with the amphibs on, a plane that won't climb as well with the 300 lbs; sooner or later it might not be a good experience. Flying needs to be 100/100. Not 99/100.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
They have a fiberglass (I think) nose spring, and rubber donuts like a Mooney on the mains
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wag2+2
FRIEND
West Michigan
I look at amphibs as giving versatility for land or water. Great when refueling on cross country trips. Not great for STOL ops. I have Clamars and don’t have much of an issue with brakes. When it comes to landings on wheels, I try to be as gentle as possible. An accumulator and springs on the mains help soften the blow. If you don’t have that you can end up putting a lot of stress at the attach plates and cause leaking at the bolt holes or cracks at the attach points. Amphibs are expensive so dropping it in should be avoided when possible. Be on the throttle a little to avoid the heavy decent. Don’t know much about the certified amphibs.
jimboflying
MEMBER
To answer the original question, I try to use a glassy water landing technique on land and try to keep the nose wheels off as long as possible to minimize damage.
algonquin
MEMBER
Seldovia,Ak
We have been operating Wip 3000’s on Maule’s for a long time, I realize it’s a different deal but take it for what it’s worth. The 3000’s use a 10-3.50-4 on the fronts and 6.00-6 on the mains, with double puck brakes. In and out of my grass strip ,1800’, it’s off in approx. 800’. The small nose tires are OK but need to be held off as long as possible. The mains are what they are, 6.00’s. The wheel bearings need attention if you expect them to last . I use “Green Grease”, it’s approved and the bearings last several years. The pulleys on the wip’s are tucked in where it’s hard to see them, so again maintenance is key, spray and check them often.
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