Federal A2500A ski installation

[akmarty]

I have a set of Federal A2500A skis that will be going on a PA-12 with 3” extended, 1.25” axle PA-18 landing gear soon.

I am looking for pictures of the washers, spacers and bushings used to install the skis. Can’t seem to find a clear image of an installation guide or drawing for them either, just one for the 1500/2000’s.

Also the rubber looks in ok condition but I want to find a source for replacement rubber for when the time comes. No idea how old the current rubber is other than some very mild cracking at the edges.

Thanks ahead of time.

Marty


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[DENNY]

Check with Attlee Dodge they may have was you need.
DENNY

 

[akmarty]

So I stopped by Atlee Dodge and Justin told me that they do own both Federal and Fluidyne ski. He said they are working on kits for the Federal but did not expect to have any rubber bushings. He said a solution he has seen is to turn a bushing from EDPM to replace the rubber and its liner.



The only other solution I’ve laid eyes on is replacing all of that in the ski body with 2 x 1/16” steel sleeves and a bronze bushing to fit the axle shoulder and the axle shaft.

Question…
Does anyone have length dimensions of the 1-1/4” axle tube and shoulder?
-Length of the 1-3/8” shoulder
-Length of the 1-1/4” tube

Thanks

 

[akmarty]

The gear leg is an Atlee Dodge +3 gearleg.


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[BC12D-4-85]

I have seen aluminum bushings fitted to replace the rubber sleeves and any metal liner. Full length across the pedestal. The point was to eliminate the toe in twisting aged rubber can allow when under spring tension. Not sure if they turned them on a lathe or ? Aero ski offered a 1.25 to 1.5" sleeve adapter that was similar.

Gary

 

[akmarty]

I have the Atlee Dodge sleeve that mates with both surfaces. Working on the spacers/washers order.


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[jrussl]

I turned some sleeves from Delrin plastic. They work great.

 

[scott the cub guy]

I have the compete drawings on PFD if tht helps you. im in tenn. I could send to you when I return to AK. scott

 

[cubdriver2]

The large washers can be found at TSC, sold over by all the hitch pins. They are shims and are fairly close measurements

Glenn

 

[cubdriver2]

I have seen aluminum bushings fitted to replace the rubber sleeves and any metal liner. Full length across the pedestal. The point was to eliminate the toe in twisting aged rubber can allow when under spring tension. Not sure if they turned them on a lathe or ? Aero ski offered a 1.25 to 1.5" sleeve adapter that was similar.

Gary

I've used automotive radiator hose or cut down suction pump hose for bushings. Never had any problems because tip of ski moved side to side 4". Always figured they are going to seek the path of least resistance. If lose they can easily do that, if tight I would think they would be imparting some twisting to the gear leg?

Glenn

 

[Skywalker]

Urethane casting resin from Fibreglast. A couple notches harder than skateboard wheels. I made some annular ply rings to jig the inner aluminum tubes and poured in place. Can't believe how straight it came out.

 

[cubdriver2]

Urethane casting resin from Fibreglast. A couple notches harder than skateboard wheels. I made some annular ply rings to jig the inner aluminum tubes and poured in place. Can't believe how straight it came out.

Looks like you have a left and right.

Glenn

 

[Skywalker]

The left and right is how Federal welded in the tubes. You want a bit of negative camber with the axles level.

 

[cubdriver2]

You'd be amazed how many don't know they are different. I didn't for about 5 years of ski flying. Bought them used and rigged for a Cub so lucked out. One of our first lake ski flying back in the mid 90s we hand 12+ ski planes on the ice, even a Great Lakes Biplane. Our local expert Cub guys Ray who had been maintained and flying Cubs for 50 years was there with his Pa11. One of my older
70+ buddy Paul from the Aerodrome flew in in his C180. We were all walking around looks at the planes and as we passed the Pa11 Paul says look his skis are on the wrong way. We all looked and couldn't tell any difference. We thought Paul was nuts. Couple weeks later Ray took his skis off and put a pipe thru both ski towers and says " son of a gun "
Since then looking around and helping others rig skis there are more then a few guys flying around with 2 lefts or 2 rights.
Ray fixed his and said he couldn't tell the difference skiing around.

Glenn

 

[BC12D-4-85]

I've used automotive radiator hose or cut down suction pump hose for bushings. Never had any problems because tip of ski moved side to side 4". Always figured they are going to seek the path of least resistance. If lose they can easily do that, if tight I would think they would be imparting some twisting to the gear leg?

Glenn

Toe in static with compressed/aged rubber is noticeable when sitting. Heavy bungees or more likely springs will also create that. Makes takeoff tracks wider and the skegs can cause drag and make the plane jump side to side when hitting hard ridges. It helps to have solid inserts w/o the rubber and set the bungee/spring tension to be correct for the length of gear and angle to fuselage (lower angle of spring = more tension per amount of tip deflection). Long ski noses like boards and Landes will twist gear more than Federal or Aero. Heavy gear helps and so does lower reinforcement braces like Atlee's. Placing the skis as close to the lower gear cluster as possible reduces the arm and twist. Eventually pilots add the third gear leg support like used for wheel skis to control the twist. Over time the gear will take on a permanent twist that a BF pipe over the axle can bend back to correct. My experience.

Gary

 

[BC12D-4-85]

Glenn, not meant to lecture above just some observations from several aircraft owned by me and buds. The one PA-18 that had Federals with compressed rubber inserts wasn't mine, but I flew it with the owner aboard trapping marten for a couple winters. The toe-in got to be so bad snow and overflow would pile up on the skis and tail. Takeoffs were long. Landing on hard packed drifts was risky business as it jumped around bad. Later when my Cub had Aero 3000's we compared performance. His narrower skis would leave a track as wide as my wider skis that had no rubber inserts. And, I doubt anybody bothered to check for left and right skis.

Gary

 

[mvivion]

I never liked the "flexibility" of those rubber bushings. As Gary says, get em pointed the right direction, first, and keep em pointed that direction.

Or just buy a new set of Aero 3000s.....great straight skis on a Cub.

MTV

 

[akmarty]

 

[akmarty]

Drawing 11R262