Edo floats on a 12 with 18 gear

[CubDriver218]

I was under the impression that I needed PA12 rigging with PA-18 attachments.
I called Kenmore and they said they do not sell attach gear separate from attachments. I guess rigging is synonymous with attach gear.
So I called Karen Borer who will sell me the STC that allows me to put 2000s on my 12 which has 18 gear, however she doesn't have any of the drawings, parts or info really and handed me off to Steve at F.A. Dodge.
Called Steve and he also had a hard time finding instructions and stuff to actually make it happen. Once he located the information he stated that the STC isn't going to help me as it is to cut some struts and modify the attachments on regular PA-18 rigging which he said is the old style and you can't find that type of rigging anymore.
I did learn that a PA-14 and a PA-12 have the same hard attach points so if I were to find a PA-14 on floats, those would work for my 12 which broadens my search a little bit.
I'm going to call Charlie Center next to see what information he has, but I'm sure some of you have gone through this before.
Does anyone have the drawings on exactly what I need to do and what I should be buying?

I can find Edo 2000s for sale, but the rigging is another 7,000 and won't even work unless it's modified and being told the STC doesn't work to modify the new style has left me slightly confused, and wondering how in the world I'm going to make this happen. at a reasonable price. 10,000 for floats, and have to spend another 7,000 on rigging before I'm even started modifying and stuff?

 

[55-PA18A]

Are you asking about the float fittings that are attached to the fuselage, or the struts between the floats and the fuselage?

 

[CubDriver218]

I'm not even sure. I've called about everyone and have got some private messages and it's all pretty confusing. I thought the struts between the fuselage are different for an 18 and a 12. I believe I need the struts for a 12 since I fly a 12, however since I've converted to supercub gear will the 12 rigging bolt right up or do I need something else?

Others have said the 18 rigging will bolt right up, but performance wise I need to widen the stance and lower the rear struts for more angle of attack.
Others have said the regular 18 rigging will bolt right up and work fine
Then I'm told Borer has an STC to get a 12 with 18 gear on 2000s, but I'm then told since 2000s are on the type certificate you shouldn't need an STC

My head is spinning. I just want floats and have a line on some that came off of a 12 with standard 12 gear. I'm trying to figure out if those will work or what else I need to get to get them to bolt on. I have welded on atlee float fittings for the rear and PA-18 extended gear on my 47 PA-12.

 

[Scouter]

Call Dale or Mike Twitchell in Turner Maine. 207-225-3490. They have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about floats. Good guys

Jim

 

[aktango58]

Ed Peck

http://peckaero.ca/

Call him. If he can not help you I would be surprised.

If you need a bit more angle on the plane, it is easy to take out the attach fitting and cut a strut down, then put the attach fitting back in.

 

[cubdriver2]

You have a 12 that has 18 gear bolted onto lt. If you remove the 18 gear you have a 12 without gear? The 2000 floats with 12 struts should all fit. I think the only thing that you will have to change are the front flying wires maybe? But call around to be sure.

Glenn

 

[skywagon8a]

You have a 12 that has 18 gear bolted onto lt. If you remove the 18 gear you have a 12 without gear? The 2000 floats with 12 struts should all fit. I think the only thing that you will have to change are the front flying wires maybe? But call around to be sure.

Glenn

And the fittings. The front landing gear fittings are different on a -12 installation than on an -18. You can use the same wires but perhaps change the length of the wire pulls. Buy those 2000s with the -12 gear it will take very little to make them fit on your plane.

 

[CubDriver218]

And the fittings. The front landing gear fittings are different on a -12 installation than on an -18. You can use the same wires but perhaps change the length of the wire pulls. Buy those 2000s with the -12 gear it will take very little to make them fit on your plane.

When converting a 12 to 18 gear don't you lose the original 12 attachments? I'd like to buy the floats that are coming off of a 12 with standard gear, but want to ensure they will go on the plane. Do you still have to have the hump where the bungies attach to the old 12 gear to make it work?

 

[skywagon8a]

Look at the installation drawings for both the PA-18 and the PA-12. They are here: http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/models.html There are two different types of PA-12 attachment gear. The early one is a welded truss that is basically just one piece. That may or may not fit both the -12 and -18 gear. The later installation should only require small fitting changes.

The truss where the bungees attach is not used for the floats.

Since you have the rear weld on fittings your only concern would be the fitting which attaches to the top of the front and diagonal struts and the upper wire pull fittings.

 

[C-FIJK]

I have a set of -12-18 gear for edo 2000 if your interested let me know!

 

[CubDriver218]

Does anyone have a copy of the Borer STC SA-148AL Which allows Edo 2000s with PA18 gear to go on a 12? I'd really like to see the STC and/or drawings.
In talking Borer, Atlee Dodge, Charlie Center, My local mechanic, and Butch from Airways aviation I'm still getting mixed results.
some people say that edos off of a standard gear 12 will go on mine, however others say they will not as the old 12 gear is always cut off. So it sounds like I need edos off of a supercub and modify those, or floats straight off of a 12 that had 18 gear.

I need the drawings just so I can measure and know if the ones straight off a 12 with 12 gear has the correct length and stuff before I buy them. If I need it, I'll buy my own STC, but for now I need to see the drawings. Any help is appreciated.

there's a pair on barnstormers right now off of a 12 with 18 gear. I called like right after it was posted and someone beat me to the punch.

 

[cubdriver2]

Give Eddie Peck a call and pick his brain, always entertaining even if he doesn't know, eh
http://peckaero.ca/
902-467-3333


Glenn

 

[cruiser]

The only difference in a 12 with 12 landing gear attachments and a 12 with 18 landing gear attachments is the addition of the tab for the cabane V. With the Borer STC to add 18 gear to a PA-12 you just make the tab up and weld it on your existing 12 front landing gear fitting. Kenmore has all the drawings for the float gear on their web site for free. The Cub Club has the EDO drawings for the 12 on floats for a small fee. If your mechanic is having heartburn about using PA-12 float gear on your airplane because the front gear fitting is modified for a cabane V tab find yourself a different mechanic. The original 12 shock cords are often cut off because it is less hazardous to your fingers than trying to save them.

 

[C-FIJK]

I have the proper gear if you want to buy them.

 

[CubDriver218]

I have the proper gear if you want to buy them.

I appreciate that, and I may go that route, however I'd like to look a little bit longer for the entire set up as a package deal.
If I buy the gear and floats separate, I'm going to be left with gear from the floats I buy that I'll need to sell, and have more money into the project (till I finally sell the gear that it comes with) than I really want to spend. Now if you have the floats to go with it, I'd be interested right now!

 

[RAC cubs]

barnstormers has a set of 2000's on 12 rigging . 8,000.00

 

[CubDriver218]

I e mailed that guy the day he put them up at 7 AM, called him at noon, and again after work at 430. When I got ahold of him he stated they were already sold.
I offered him $1,000 more than the other guy. He said he couldn't do that which is understandable. I cannot believe someone beat me to those as I was right on it. :-(

 

[electricsnail]

I've got old -18 float attach rigging, new -18 rigging, -12 rigging and a set of edo 2000s in good shape but I don't think I'm ready to sell....if you need rigging parts I can probably help....pm me if you need.

 

[RAC cubs]

so when are you going to be ready?sold my c-2200s skis would like to try floots before I get to old,and I am62 now. pa-18

 

[RAC cubs]

can't mr Wells in Barron Wi . help you he got a lot of 2000's

 

[CubDriver218]

can't mr Wells in Barron Wi . help you he got a lot of 2000's

Do you have a phone number or any contact information for Mr. Wells?
Are you the one who got those Edo 2000s in Kansas? He said someone from Wisconsin had beat me to the punch.
WI is close so if you have more information on how I may get in touch to see if this Mr. Wells can help me, I'd very much appreciate it.

 

[TurboBeaver]

First of all who ever told you that 18 struts will bolt up to your 12 and work fine has either never tryed it or his idea of working fine is ALOT different than mine! However because 18 struts are longer you can cut them and make a set from the 18 struts........Atlee gave me some numbers to make struts up so the 12 is sitting up exactly the same as an 18,(factory struts have the 12 closer to the floats, hence easyer to wack your head on the trailing edge as you are walking up the floats? ) of course they would not be legal in today's world. Having flown a couple of 12s with 18 struts, they were both hopeless for getting out of the water as you wind up with less than a degree of incidence between wing and floats, because the 12 fuselage is so much wider at rear fitting station. Go measure up a few 12s on 2000s and take your digital level, check the difference between the top of the float and bottom of wing, if you see something like 3.5/5 degrees, get the strut measurements and cut a set of 18 struts down and your will perform like crazy, keep your $7,000 for av gas!

 

[Paul Heinrich]

Kenmore Air Harbor sells brand new EDO 2000s with rigging for a PA-12 with PA-18 gear fittings. Call them and ask to talk to Erik Johanson at 425 486-3224. He knows everything there is to know about the proper rigging and attachment fittings for your plane--I bought a set of 2000s for my 12 with 18 gear from him and everything was absolutely perfect and fit perfectly.

 

[RAC cubs]

Kris Wells Barron wi just west of Rice Lake 715 458 4500

 

[CubDriver218]

Thanks to my buddy Rich he invited me over and had access to PA 18 floats, PA 12 floats and PA 12 floats with PA 18 gear.
we measured all of them and the results are as follows

Edo 2000 ........ ...... Front .......... Rear........... Diagonal

PA 18..................... 37 7/8"...... 32 1/4" ......... 52 5/8"

PA 12 .................... 34 3/4" ........ 29" .............. 50 3/4"

PA12 with 18 gear ... 34 3/4" ...... 28 1/2" ........... 50 3/4"


I find this interesting because I've heard of people getting the 18 rigging and cutting the rear struts down to match that of a 12. With the front struts so much higher on the 18 perhaps this would give the 12 even more take off performance due to it's increased angle of attack. It does make me think what I need are original 12 struts and then just figure out how to get them mounted to the front since I have 18 gear.

Does anyone know if the PA-14 is the same as a 12 with 18 gear? I thought I'd read that somewhere and some 14 floats are available in my neighborhood.

 

[cubdriver2]

I wouldn't trust that any of the rear struts are original length, especially if the rivits have been replaced with bolts. A lot of the ones around here have been shortened.

Glenn

 

[skywagon8a]

Richard, you are worrying too much. Just use the -12 gear with a -18 upper front fitting. I have Citabria 7GCBC gear on my -18 clone and it works just fine. I just lengthened the fitting for the rear strut. The only difference with those two -12 gears is that the float step will be about 1/8" difference in it location.

 

[Paul Heinrich]

I don't agree with Skywagon8a: "close enough" isn't correct.

Kenmore Air EDO has the correct answers and approved parts and drawings for your application. Call them.

 

[supercrow]

I don't agree with Skywagon8a: "close enough" isn't correct.

Kenmore Air EDO has the correct answers and approved parts and drawings for your application. Call them.

I for one, do agree with skywagon; you can find 1/8" difference at the step in the construction of the floats. Some of you are overthinking this.

 

[skywagon8a]

I don't agree with Skywagon8a: "close enough" isn't correct.

Kenmore Air EDO has the correct answers and approved parts and drawings for your application. Call them.

Paul, there are some places where "close enough" is sloppy inferior workmanship and some places where "close enough" is "close enough". This example is the latter. EDO never made a float installation for a PA-12 with PA-18 landing gear fittings. However it is done will be with a collection of parts from different installations.