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EAA Young Eagles (New Rules)

Dear EAA:

Your recent policy change on the Young Eagles program is troubling and unjustified. This policy is a knee jerk reaction and unfair. I do not plan to submit to any additional background checks and encourage other members to follow suit. EAA is caving in to the PC police and the lawyers. I will reconsider the Young Eagles program in about 15 years.

Sincerely,
Jared Fogle
(former Subway pitchman)
 
Junkie, that's sorta brownshirt-ish isn't it? "Komrade, what do you have to hide?"
 
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In the past several years pretty much everything about aviation has improved. The FAA is easier to deal with. Aeromedical is less restrictive than before and promises to get even better. Light Sport is healthy. Here I sit fixing to build a high performance experimental Cub that's loaded with components and features that didn't even exist 15 years ago. And the young guys I know are asking if they can help with it. From my perspective the future is bright. The biggest negative I see in GA is the grumpy old man attitudes on the internet and in airport meetings. That's a product of our generation. Young guys don't make time to sit and complain about change because to they aren't clinging to the past. We need to try not to bog them down as they forge into the future. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
 
Randy, with all due respect, and believe me my respect for you abounds, we cannot accept survival. The bottom line is, every thing is about the bottom line. The bottom line says if a business is not growing at the minimum of the population, it is dying. Below that rate, it is bleeding out and right now, GA is bleeding out.

In 1981 I took a job as D of Ops for a flagging flight school that was also a Beech dealer. Now you remember how tough those time were, heck I was furloughed from my airline job with a new born at home. The sales people where laconic at best. Short story, I said we were going to tke the wings off a Skipper and Sundowner and transport them to a local mall. We closed 8 sales over a Sat/Sun, 4 myself personally. 7 of the 8 sales where to people who had zero aviation experience.

Now we could say these sales where the result of out reach like YE. It was anything but that. It was entirely financial. The 10% ITC was passed, along with generous tax benefits for lease backs. All these airplanes were leasebacks and with the tax benefits we could rent them out at reasonable rates to people wanting to start a career.

If we want to staunch the bleeding, we have to create economics that will at least grow GA at 3% year over year. Better tax treatments coupled with liability protection on a level the gun industry enjoys would be a start. Then we need an FAA that quits running scared of innovation with such things a modern powerplants and accessory retrofits for legacy engines.

If we could get those things, we might be able to begin growing. Personally however I am not hopeful. The powers to be at GAMA seem content to sell 750,000 dollar singles to millionaires who can afford the insurance and I think they have given up on the US market rather than change the dynamics that are mortally wounding it. They only care about the low hanging fruit like China and have thrown in the towel here. Look who is buying up the GA industry. Follow the money.
 
GeeBee, That sounds like a ton of work taking two airplanes to a mall to stir up interest. Do you think that would work in these times? Park a shiny new airplane next to the food court and see how many people show interest. Of course hide the list price and just tell everyone it's "affordable".
 
GeeBee, That sounds like a ton of work taking two airplanes to a mall to stir up interest. Do you think that would work in these times? Park a shiny new airplane next to the food court and see how many people show interest. Of course hide the list price and just tell everyone it's "affordable".

No, because the economics are not in line anymore. Sizzle is all well and good and in any marketing it is required. Ultimately as Clara Peller asked, "Where's the beef?" You have to produce the steak with that sizzle.

While I applaud the EAA and all the YE mentors and volunteers, unless all the alphabet organiztions get together and change the legal dynamics, civil, tax and regulatory we are pushing a rope.
 
"The biggest negative I see in GA is the grumpy old man attitudes on the internet and in airport meetings. That's a product of our generation. " AMEN
 
"The biggest negative I see in GA is the grumpy old man attitudes on the internet and in airport meetings. That's a product of our generation. " AMEN

Hey, I've waited 60 years so I could be a grumpy old man. Please don't take that away too!

-Cub Builder
 
If you look at what the EAA is paying for insurance for this, they could just pay CFIs the going rate,for an hour of dual instruction.for each kid
 
I've been a YE pilot in the past but not for at least 10 years. But I enjoy giving young folks rides. Here is a picture of the son of friends who turns 16 on Friday. His parents asked if I'd take him for his first light plane ride for his birthday. The weather was good today and the T41B hadn't been out for six weeks or so, so up we went.

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I had an extra SC.org calendar in the hangar and gave that to him too. He was all smiles and asked a lot of questions about learning to fly while we were in the air.

A good day for both of us.
 

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No shortage of enthusiasm with grand kids, niece and nephew. They will roll out of bed at 6:30 on a Saturday to go to the airport for pancakes and flying. They are fortunate to have an airplane in the family. I don't mind jumping through some hoops so other kids can experience this too.
 

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... So, since I'm not likely going to submit my SS number online to a strange company and I don't have a huge financial incentive, I'll just stand down on the YE rides......



The gag post by "Jared" of Subway fame hits the nail on the head IMHO.
Yeah, we all know that you're not a pervert, but what about "the other guy" (that nobody knows) giving YE rides? I think if it was your kid going on an unsupervised ride with a total stranger, you might be glad that an effort had been made to screen out degenerates.

There's a guy on another site who's main gripe about the background check was having to submit his SSN since he said it wasn't necessary for a criminal background check and it left him open to identity theft. I suggested that he turn in the form but leave the SSN blank. Seems simple to me. Maybe that wouldn't fly but maybe it would.
 
Pretty sad when one cannot endorse with pictures. Photos tell the story. Is there a waiver and paperwork to take a child's photo standing next to their pilot and airplane? There are many layers to all of this.

b. Photography. Staff and volunteers are strictly prohibited from taking photographs of Youth participating in EAA-related programs and events for personal use and from posting photographs depicting such Youth on social media or websites. Except for staff or volunteers serving as designated photographers for a specific event or outing, staff and volunteers may not take their own photos or videos of single or specific Youth without the knowledge and permission of their parents. Copies of all photographs must be made available to parents upon request. EAA respects the right of parents to withhold consent for the use of their children’s photographs in EAA and chapter publicity materials. Parents wishing to withhold consent should inform the person who is in charge of the EAA-related program or event. Names of Youth must not be used in association with their photographs. When there is a designated photographer for an EAA-related event or program, all photographs must be provided to the person in charge, who will review the photographs and use or not use them as he or she deems to be appropriate.
 
Guess I'm behind the curve ball. In my small town we take photos of DARE graduations at school, an officer handing out a Dairy Queen certificate for catching a youth wearing a life jacket in a boat or helmet on bike. Our local festival I will be in uniform with a kid giving out a bike rodeo safety certificate and make the newspaper. Our entryway into the FBO has numerous YE photos from years past. They should probably come down. The rabbit hole is getting pretty deep.
 
Called my aviation psychiatrist this afternoon and we talked about the picture clause mentioned above.
He prescribed Fukitol 500mg and told me to relax.
 
I have so many thoughts on all of this but they are a discombobulated mess, so I'll spare you all a rambling, 5-foot long post.

Do I like the new Young Eagles protocol? No.

Will I submit to said protocol and still fly Young Eagles? Yes.

Do I think this will hurt the YE program? Absolutely.

Why?

The biggest negative I see in GA is the grumpy old man attitudes on the internet and in airport meetings. That's a product of our generation. Young guys don't make time to sit and complain about change because to they aren't clinging to the past. We need to try not to bog them down as they forge into the future. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Because of this. Not only this, but also because a lot of our population won't even KNOW about this. There are several local YE pilots who I don't think even own a computer. Personally, I came *this* close to throwing away the EAA letter because I though it was junk mail. Literally, I had it in our junk mail pile to go to the recycle bin and something made me open it. Now, I would have found out about it, because I did see this thread....but the fact that it has to be done by x date (May 1?), or you are SOL is troubling. I really, really think EAA's YE pilot numbers will be hurt by this initiative, and in turn that can only hurt us bringing new folks to aviation...which is something I am very big on.

I have lots of thoughts about GA and its future, the pilot shortage, millenials, you name it, but I'll save it for another day, perhaps over a bottle of wine at New Holstein or something. This phenomenon is not limited to GA only. I'm watching the same thing happen to my childhood passion - horses and showing horses. I see folks in that industry scratching their heads and wondering where the show competitors have gone and why the same long-time competitors are still around and no new faces are emerging. I just hope this doesn't irreparably damage the program - I've not been over to the EAA forum to read the opinions there.

I will say I am very, very disappointed to hear about the photography rule. I am a photographer. Even if as a hobby in the future, I will always love being a photographer. I took photos of the kids in New Holstein (so did Randy) and when I fly kids at the 3EX events, I have my mom (who handles sign-ups) devise a list specifically for me to take home that has kids names, in the order I flew them, with the parent's email next to them. I send a high-res photo to the parents of the kid sitting in the plane after the event is complete. I can't tell you how much they appreciate this. This makes me incredibly sad to know I can't do this any longer. Will it stop me from flying kiddos? No. I do give LOTS of rides outside of EAA events, kids and adults alike, and I will continue this practice for the flights I do on my own.

Sarah
 
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A poll over on the EAA forum, while not a scientific sampling and subject to a significant margin of error, indicates that roughly 15% of the current volunteers are willing to go along with the EAA's new policy. Some 85% are saying this is not acceptable. The program won't survive that kind of loss of volunteers. The EAA Staff forum moderator says to expect the EAA management to at least comment, and possibly propose a resolution within the next week. As it currently stands, this is an impasse with the program as the casualty.

-Cub Builder
 
I need to get a better aviation psychiatrist. Mine prescribed Darnitol.

I was on Darnitol 200mg for about 6 years. Its good against a ton of issues.
Then I took Fuggetaloton 300 in clinical dosage, but had severe side effects.

We need to find a way to turn all these depressing and bad news into energy. Learned helplessness and resignation cannot ever be the answer. Nobody will solve this for our community and no magic leaders will appear and lead everyone out of the darkness. Bury the Young Eagles program if you must, but replace it with something practicable that you can manage and do. Lets not blow (y)our own candle out. We should avoid regress at all cost.
 
A question for Dr. WindOnHisNose: Are Darnitol, Fukitol, and Fuggetaloton on the FAA approved list of medications?
 
I don't think not wanting to turn your SS # over to EAA's third party background checker (who appears to not have a recognizable name) makes you a grumpy old man hell bent on destroying GA and it's growth.
 
"The biggest negative I see in GA is the grumpy old man attitudes on the internet and in airport meetings. That's a product of our generation. "


Very good idea, shoot the messenger. Whoever said that has their head in the sand.

Jack
 
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