EAA Young Eagles (New Rules)

[hotrod180]

Wow. Should I take a Glock to the next Air Venture? I knew there was an element of danger, but thought it was mostly due to congested airspace.

I was a Boy Scout as a kid. "Be prepared" was the Scout motto.
Packing is part of being prepared. If you always have it with you, you'll always have it if you need it.
Crazy people don't make appointments, or worry about when their craziness might be convenient for others.
A few years ago, who woulda thunk you might need a gun when you go see a movie or go to a Xmas party?

 

[Marty57]

So gripe away, but put on your big boy pants and fill the paperwork out and help aviation.

end rant.

I have to agree with aktango58 on this one. We just need to do this to show the parents that we respect their kids enough to be a little inconvenienced. I'm surprised that it has taken EAA this long to bring this policy to the Young Eagles program. Reading over the policy; it's almost identical to the training tapes we used when I was a scout leader 15 years ago. As a scout leader, teacher, and youth leader, the policy of "two deep leadership", open doors, etc. is standard operating procedure. I think we need to look at this from a different vantage point; that of the parent. It is a scary world today, way different than when many of us were kids. How about if a chapter presents to the public what steps are being taken to protect their kids from harm? From background checks to proper aircraft maintenance documentation, to a bio about the pilots taking their kids for a ride; why not show how much we really care about the kids and care about aviation? I suspect that the parents will be pretty impressed with the outstanding caliber of pilots that are willing to be this transparent just to give their kids a short ride in an airplane. I think we need to give it a try and continue to show how much we care about the future of aviation.

Marty57

 

[jjbaker]

...while nothing has actually happened to a YE during a YE flight or event, there have been three incidents where someone was accused of improprieties with a child, and coincidentally was also a YE pilot, so the EAA was mentioned along side the name of a suspected child abuser in an article and that could potentially put the EAA in a negative light.

Enough said.

It's been a wonderful tool. It's a shame corporate EAA chose to kill it this way as it is likely they will also run off a fair amount of the current membership. As much as I genuinely hate to see it, these corporate folks aren't going to "get it" until the board is asking them why the YE program died, or why 1/3 of the membership stopped paying dues.

When did 1/3 of the membership stop paying dues?

You make it clear that you see pilots that choose to take a stand and not roll over for corporate EAA as a bunch of whiners.

Yes, I guess I am well known to roll over for association politics. Actually had my whole spine removed to make the rolling over part easier.

While I disagree with your decision to capitulate to the EAA, I understand and respect your choice. But you also need to respect those that choose not to allow the EAA to bully them into something they feel is wrong.

Find where I suggested to capitulate and let EAA "bully" someone and I will show you how EAA actually bullies. With all due respect, I think your definition of bullying is a whee bit off. Fact is that there have been issues. EAA isn't going to take a risk and let Joe Blow get them national media attention through a sexual harassment case. You can object to it and make your own event, cease your membership (no damage/ completely insignificant to me personally) or provide an alternative solution to the problem. Stomping your feet on the ground, or better yet, distancing yourself from EAA "Corporate" isn't going to do a darn thing.

I am very passionate about this keeping the lights on for the next generation. But I can not allow the EAA to steamroll me. In my view, the corporate EAA just joined the group intent upon killing aviation, with the exception of AirVenture, Inc. -Cub Builder

Emotional responses are good for the soul. I guess people show it to demonstrate that there is some fire left in them. I have learned that associations are very much total institutions, which is why I refuse to belong to any of them. If you are a member, you either march along wherever they go or you end up with a stigma of being an anti association guy and practically an enemy of general aviation. Its either "pay and shut up" or "don't pay and shut up". I don't pay dues to be told what to think, say or do.

But, we all have and should continue to be willing to take one for the team, if that brings young people into aviation.

I find the move to cease YE programs in chapters childish and tactically wrong. You feel different. Fine with me.

 

[Cub junkie]

I don't see any common ground coming from all this. Those that disagree have their reasons and stand by them and those that agree with the new policy think the're right too.(with wordy answers) In the spring when the next YE rally spools up wherever I'm guessing you might see reduced participation from the membership. The EAA will have some type of paperwork police running around to see who is vetted and who is not welcome.

 

[Southern Aero]

I have been an EAA member since around 1970. I've never been much on giving kids rides in an "organized event" tho I have participated.............. and it was a 2 place airplane, a Cub or Citabria. I've always given kids rides, friend of kids........ sometimes parents too. ....... Still do .....Maybe an alternate method of compliance for the new EAA mandate could be that everyone with a 2 place aircraft "must have" a GoPro recording camera installed. With this, if little Ralphy or Janie was to ever get out of your airplane and say "Mommy... he touched my pee pee" you would have graphic record of the flight. I would expect it to be it your favor and little Ralphy might get his a$$ beat. .......... but I'm sure it would have to be installed and maintained by an approved, certified/vetted technician........ and you would have to have a legal sign off within the past 30 days or so..............

I watched a documentary on the history channel a while back..... it had to do with China and its legal system. I realize it s not a good comparison but in China there is one lawyer for every 10,000 people. In the US there is one of some sort for every 238 people. If that's accurate, that kinda puts it into perspective.

 

[skywagon8a]

For $40 get one of these.

https://www.buydashcampro.com/?mid=6392472

 

[n40ff]

I've come to the conclusion that GA is dying and there is nothing that can save it. This is just another nail in the coffin. Taking kids for a ride is useless as far as saving aviation. If you want to save GA by bringing new pilots on board, do something about the sticker shock the parent will have when he looks at the cost and bull s... associated with the first flight lesson. Flying has simply gotten too %$%^#$ expensive with too much government and too many lawyers. Between the FAA and insurance companies our balls are in a vice. 99% of kids would rather play a video game than fly in an airplane anyway.

If a kid and parent show up next to my plane and the kid wants a ride more than his next breath and the parent is just as excited they might be able to talk me into a ride. I don't give a rats butt about all this other c.... That said, So far it hasn't happened.

I simply think the YE program is blowing smoke. Any kid that wants to fly(like me) will find a way. Too bad the way is now so difficult. Worst thing is lack of access to the airport in most areas. Not that that matters in most places as you can go to a airport where 400 planes are based on a beautiful Sat. afternoon and not find a single pilot in sight anyway....

Yada, Yada....... YMMV and if it does, I wish you good luck. If you find a kid that might be a good prospect ask his dad and give him a ride. Just between you and them. PERIOD!

Sorry, I may just be a cynical old man but I don't see any solution via. some "program".

FWIW(not much)

Jack

 

[Eddie Foy]

For $40 get one of these.

https://www.buydashcampro.com/?mid=6392472

Read the reviews first. It sounds too good to be true and probably is.

 

[Southern Aero]

For $40 get one of these.

https://www.buydashcampro.com/?mid=6392472

Ha, I did get something like this for my truck.......... replaces rear view mirror for the front and has additional camera for the rear. I got the kind that wasn't readily recognizable just in case I were to be incapacitated and somebody rip it off. Records the same way in a loop but front and rear and stays on for a little while even after switch is off.

 

[WindOnHisNose]

I've come to the conclusion that GA is dying and there is nothing that can save it.

FWIW(not much)

Jack

Sorry you have drawn a conclusion on this subject, Jack. Given the "dying" analogy, please permit me to offer the advice I would give should someone on my medical team decide that "nothing can save it."

For me, I still feel a pulse and choose not to give up on GA, so I and apparently a precious few others choose to keep on with the compressions, and ask that you simply not get in our way unless you have a better solution. By standing on the sidelines and verbally declaring that death is inevitable for this sick person does nothing to bolster the spirits of my teammates. Is there a better way to approach this critically ill patient? If so, speak up with solutions. If not, quietly stand by and let us do the best we can.

I actually don't think you and others here feel that there is nothing that can save it. I think many of us are frustrated, we think that the existing circumstances are standing in the way of recovery, and we are at a loss as to what to say to those who seem to be destroying chances of recovery. In this instance, you offer rides if "you find a kid that might be a good prospect ask his dad and give him a ride." Those are not the words of a person who feel that there is nothing that can save it. That would be why I want you still on our team, Jack. Your words reveal that you are a fighter, and fighters are exactly what we need on our team to make a positive difference.

Randy

 

[stewartb]

Simply put... If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

 

[hotrod180]

.....Taking kids for a ride is useless as far as saving aviation. If you want to save GA by bringing new pilots on board, do something about the sticker shock the parent will have when he looks at the cost and bull s... ...

The YE program may get some kids (more) enthused about taking up flying when they're older, but it's main benefit is to provide good PR and make the parents more airplane / airport friendly. When the guy with the ponked Skywagon flies over somebody's house with the rpm & MP pegged, hopefully instead of saying "I hate them noisy damn airplanes, we oughta get that airport shut down", maybe the homeowner will say "I wonder if that's the pilot who gave little Johnny an airplane ride last summer? That sure was nice of him."

Personally I prefer to choose who I take flying, so although I've given plenty of friend's kids rides, I have never participated in a YE event.

 

[OLDCROWE]

Well said Randy!

 

[Southern Aero]

I've come to the conclusion that GA is dying and there is nothing that can save it. This is just another nail in the coffin. Taking kids for a ride is useless as far as saving aviation. If you want to save GA by bringing new pilots on board, do something about the sticker shock the parent will have when he looks at the cost and bull s... associated with the first flight lesson. Flying has simply gotten too %$%^#$ expensive with too much government and too many lawyers. Between the FAA and insurance companies our balls are in a vice. 99% of kids would rather play a video game than fly in an airplane anyway.

If a kid and parent show up next to my plane and the kid wants a ride more than his next breath and the parent is just as excited they might be able to talk me into a ride. I don't give a rats butt about all this other c.... That said, So far it hasn't happened.

I simply think the YE program is blowing smoke. Any kid that wants to fly(like me) will find a way. Too bad the way is now so difficult. Worst thing is lack of access to the airport in most areas. Not that that matters in most places as you can go to a airport where 400 planes are based on a beautiful Sat. afternoon and not find a single pilot in sight anyway....

Yada, Yada....... YMMV and if it does, I wish you good luck. If you find a kid that might be a good prospect ask his dad and give him a ride. Just between you and them. PERIOD!

Sorry, I may just be a cynical old man but I don't see any solution via. some "program".

FWIW(not much)

Jack

Jack

You are right. Kids don't seem to be interested in flying or building an airplane or anything else for that matter. The ones that have been with their parents in my shop are usually playing a game on their phone, texting (which I really love) or pulling on the parents saying "lets go". The local EAA doesn't even come around as I am not building an RV or Lancair so they are not interested. Tube and rag airplanes are just not in the same "class". ................... no "approved" kits in my shop. My flight instructor was friends with an old guy name Asa Oxner that had a shop near Union, SC in the 60s - early 70s........ Mostly keeping sprayers/dusters and Cub types going. We use to land at his strip occasionally and that is what ruined me for the rest of my life............ I had been "exposed" to it.

Strangers occasionally stop in and see the sign on the door for "beware of dog", conceal/carry encouraged and I warn them of a lot of sharp, pointy things are around the shop. They are usually just looking for info to find somebody else.

But you are right, I think GA is dying or at least dwindling and the EAA is just trying promote something or "program" that will generate more revenue for itself in the future. I cant believe how big it has become but I just don't see enuff young people in it. Will need them to keep it (GA) going. I used to go to Lakeland long before the Sun N Fun/EAA break up (early 70s) when it was so small you had a hard time finding it on the airport. Didn't cost hardly anything then. You are right about the airport activity too. But then a lot of that around here is the locals don't want to put up with the BS created by the !#*&*$@ flight school (pilot mill) traffic enuff to go fly. Cant understand the foreigners on the radio............. there are no "English speaking" folks learning to fly. If you have a no radio Cub they go off the deep end at how "unsafe" you are. If you have a radio you might get lectured on the AIM by the airline wannabes (instructors) if you cut inside their "bomber patterns".... tho we are down and clear well before the are over the threshold. ........ some airplanes just cant fly that slow. If they really thought about it they might not to screw with the retired/ex-airlines guys............. but that's another topic for another time. Transients now avoid our local airport because of all the friggin "gnats" in the pattern...... fuel too high here anyways.

But back to the original subject, I don't really have an answer ........... I guess I'll fly a kid or parent occasionally with or without the "official" paperwork. Like you, I don't care much for the "program"............. I'm not against it by any means but I do hate the red tape that now goes with it. If it ever got to the point financially I had to make a decision whether to pay dues to the NRA or EAA I'd probly have to go with the NRA.............. and I have a pretty low EAA number.

 

[bob turner]

May not be dying - but city statistics at my home airport - MYF - say that 2012 was just a hair more than 50% of 1977 in operations count. Factor in the population increase and it is more like 35%. And finally factor in the students, who speak better English than I do Pakistani, and you might agree with Jack.

Five hundred aircraft based here - you can always find me between 12:30 and four. One or two others, and the rest are helicopters and corporate, and students from abroad. But we are carefully fenced in - no kids allowed.

 

[GeeBee]

GA will be alive and kicking when there is a big enough pot of gold at the end of the pilot rainbow to make entering the world of aviation a worthwhile pursuit. Until that time designing apps and games makes more career sense.

 

[Eddie Foy]

I have given a few YE rides. I have always felt that I was exposing myself to a huge liability but did it anyway for the kids.

In this current sue em phase, I am on the fence as to continuing to participate.

 

[skywagon8a]

GA will be alive and kicking when there is a big enough pot of gold at the end of the pilot rainbow to make entering the world of aviation a worthwhile pursuit. Until that time designing apps and games makes more career sense.

It was announced on the news here today that the local small airline CapeAir has been cutting back on flights because there is a shortage of pilots. Wonder why? They only pay around $35-40k/year. In this state a person on welfare can accumulate free benefits with a value of about $55k/year. Once the FAA increased the requirements to possessing an ATP for entry level pilots it became too expensive for a youngster to entertain any thoughts of professional flying. Why did they do this? Because there were some fatal accidents caused by low paid poor quality pilots. It's sad, a youngster has had many doors slammed in their faces.

I'm afraid that the pulse is getting very weak, Doc.

 

[Eddie Foy]

The pipeline dried up. I have a nephew that had the flying bug. I told him "how the cow ate the cabbage" as we say in the South... Get used to crash pads and starvation wages. Dont even think about marriage or a family.

He stuck it out and is now flying for a commuter in an RJ. He will be in a good spot. He is paying his dues.

Not many young folks have that motivation today. I was fortunate that the Air Force paid for my training. I still took a 50% pay cut going to the airlines. Thankfully, the Reserves picked up the slack.

 

[scout88305]

The post WWII era running through the 50's and 60's had this nation working like dogs in harness on the Iditarod Trail. Everything from the space program to muscle cars was full steam ahead. NASA came to Bemidji, MN; they set up in the ice arena around 1973. I stood in line with the rest of town to see moon rocks, some space gear, and get an autograph from an astronaut. Kids then dreamed of being a pilot, going to space, or perhaps wearing a uniform in several capacities. We still have youth looking at these options but for the majority, attention is on pro sports and all that bullshit. I am not into sports as you might tell. My life is rewarding without it. The media and society has spun this industry into the enemy IMO.

Think of the thousands of small farms and ranches that had Champs, Cubs, and T-Crates spattered in sparrow shiat sitting behind the John Deere 730. All those military folks that weren't already flyers now getting training on the GI Bill. The kids of this generation received the baton of flight from those fathers. Those folks are now into their 70's or older. Through attrition there are fewer and fewer young pilots for a ton of reasons but some were mentioned in this thread. Add to that lack of opportunity and exposure, cost, product liability, competition from other activities, peer groups, and regulation to name a few.

The entitlement nation we live in makes it hard to defend the long road to a left seat job. Our society is fractured and broken and no longer are the huskies pulling together as a team. Many youth have lost that "fire in the belly" that is unmistakable when you see it. I hire between 50-70 teens a year and that is something I have noticed. Maybe I too have lost a little fire. I grow tired of mentoring young people who come from a shitty home and have no work ethic and then I realize that I was one of the lucky ones that had parents who inspired me. Maybe my calling on earth is to help some of these youth on their first job and help equip them since their parents didn't.

It's too bad the industry and the road to career flight is on Ramen Noodle wages. A member here hired by Pinnacle a few years back couldn't afford the pay cut so gave up flying for what he did before. 30 years from now if I'm fortunate enough to be flying in a commercial jet to some warm sandy place during a January MN. winter I have a wish. I hope the pilot was influenced by a Young Eagles flight, refused the handouts some of his peers took, and owns a little cub back home to keep his or her rudder skills sharp. That's a big wish in this world.

I got off topic and rambled but need to say the articulate position Randy and others have made here defending their particular position on this topic is quite powerful.

 

[n40ff]

GeeBee,

I entered the aviation world to fly little airplanes for fun, NEVER EVER wanted to get paid. It's sure been fun but it's almost over for me, I can still get in the cockpit but harder and harder to get out.....

Randy,

Yea, I guess it still has a pulse? I've still got a breath or two too.

Regards,

Jack

 

[WindOnHisNose]

Jack, I know you have a breath or two. Otherwise you wouldn't have the energy to provide provocative posts:lol:

These are trying times for us in aviation, those of us who value the 2nd Amendment, those of us who appreciate the value of a hard days work.

Feel a pulse? Heck, yes, there is a pulse. I attended EAA Chapter 237's monthly meeting last night and Mark German provided a wonderful overview of his flight from our home airport, KANE, in MN to Johnson Creek in his RANS-S7, and there was a lively discussion of the EAA's latest announcement regarding Young Eagles. Lively, to say the least. There is an EAA Leadership training event coming up soon at OSH and it is obvious from the discussion there that there is and will be significant feedback going to EAA.

The initial reaction of those fine 237 folks was disbelief, followed by anger and now followed by ways to change the system, circumvent the system...you know, improvise as homebuilders know so well how to do.

The pulse is palpable and I can tell you that we are working hard to have this patient pull through!

Thanks for the note and for your responses, Jack. You are greatly appreciated.

Randy

 

[WindOnHisNose]

By the way, I wanted to share some insight into what the Minnesota Pilots Association is doing to impact youth.

We are exploring ways to get aviation into the lives of 4-H Clubs in MN, more into the Boy Scouts of America and to gain a foothold with Girl Scouts of America. You may be aware that there is a merit badge with the Boy Scouts for Aviation. If you have attended your state's State Fair, our your county fair, you will no doubt see some model airplanes having been built, some rockets. We hope to become more integrated into those organizations. Big Brothers and Big Sisters organizations are also in our sights.

We are planning to emphasize youth at our upcoming Great Minnesota Aviation Gathering, April 29-30, at the Anoka County-Blaine airport and will be working to get these groups involved with some special programs for the kids.

Pulse? Heck, yes, there is a pulse. EAA has played an awesome role in the past to promote aviation to our youngsters with the Young Eagles program, but perhaps it is now time to change our approach to youngsters and focus not only on a 15 minute ride but to afford them opportunities to explore aviation in other ways.

This emphasizes the importance of knowing how to deal with kids in a safe way, and if nothing else the EAA's recent announcement has heightened our awareness of abuse potential, how to minimize the risk of this, how to better protect our children. Heck, I'm all for that...and I'm with those of you who choose to give rides without the EAA liability umbrella...but we have to be smart about how we do this, when we do this and where we do this.

Randy

 

[cubdriver2]

Randy, if you tell the Boy Scouts about the " mile high ' merit badge you'll get better attendance.

Glenn

 

[GeeBee]

GeeBee,

I entered the aviation world to fly little airplanes for fun, NEVER EVER wanted to get paid. It's sure been fun but it's almost over for me, I can still get in the cockpit but harder and harder to get out.....

Randy,

Yea, I guess it still has a pulse? I've still got a breath or two too.

Regards,

Jack

I do not doubt that many enter aviation for hobby purposes but if you look at the halcyon years of GA they were driven by people looking to make careers in aviation. Just look at the products of that time. All three mfrs made trainers, both single, (C-150/152, Tomahawk, Skipper) and multi engine. (Seminole, Duchess). Priced a light twin trainer lately, almost have to give them away. That is because those seeking a career are no longer driving GA and they are the ones who drove the industry. (No bucks, no Buck Rogers). No one seeking a career needs a Cirrus or Columbia. That is not to belittle those aircraft, but they don't meet the training needs of a future career yet they are the hot sellers in the single market.

Look, I know a young lady graduating in optometry who is leaving school with 200k in debt, but on the flip side she will make 120k her first year and she sleeps in her own bed every night. Cannot say that and yet pilots spend as much time and money as she has to aquire their skills.

We can give rides until we are blue in the face (from hypoxia), but hobbyists are not going to save, let alone grow the industry.

 

[Cub junkie]

Doesn't matter what the subject is, bottom line is you can't make somebody like something. If a young person is introduced to aviation through YE program and shown a few different directions that will help the journey then that's the best anybody can do. I don't want to be as negative about GA as some, I don't believe it's dying on the vine. I think there are less players for sure but I don't have an answer why, just an opinion. When I go to Oshkosh I look around at the people attending, make new friends in the campgrounds I mostly see young people with their parents. The kids old enough to make their own travel and recreational decisions are fewer. I grew up with a father who took me to the airport daily in the summer as he had a fleet of pipeline patrol airplanes that needed constant care. I got tired of it and all I wanted to do was ride dirt bikes and do what some of my friends were doing. Aviation at any level has always been a little harder to get into than other hobbies. It's more than money, you have to be willing to do the work. Everybody that has read this far knows the sense of accomplishment from earning any type of FAA certificate. That will never change.

 

[WindOnHisNose]

GeeBee, it is my hope that some of the hobbyists will, in fact, become enthusiasts and help the industry. Grow the industry? I am not looking for growth, but rather survival. What will the face of aviation look like when you and I have gone West? Not sure, but I want my grandson and granddaughter to experience the joy of flight...and not just from looking out the window of a 737.

"No buks, no Buck Rogers"...love it :lol:

I'm gonna give rides till I am blue in the face, and am counting on many of you to do the same.

Glenn, your point is well taken. I will ask the board of directors of the MN Pilots Assn to put you in charge of designing that poster :roll:

Randy

 

[hotrod180]

GA will be alive and kicking when there is a big enough pot of gold at the end of the pilot rainbow to make entering the world of aviation a worthwhile pursuit. Until that time designing apps and games makes more career sense.

I don't know what these flying jobs will pay in the future, but I know some airline guys that make well north of $200K a year. Way more than I ever made as a (I thought) well-paid union sheet metal worker. Yeah, they had to pay their dues-- earn their ratings, do flight instruction / air taxi /overnight freight or cancelled checks / Grand Canyon tours / regional airlines for Top Ramen wages, but eventually when they hit the majors the bigger money started rolling in. One problem is kids these days expect to make top money from the git-go. Got to have it all right now too--no such thing as delayed gratification. Why do you think credit card doubt is a problem for so many?

The trouble with raising the pay for lower or entry level flying jobs is the same as with bumping up the minimum wage. Sounds great, but the result is that airline tickets (& cheeseburgers) go up in price. People aren't gonna be happy when that happens, and they're not gonna buy as many tickets (or burgers). Meaning prices will have to go up again -- a vicious circle. Or wages will have to go back down to keep prices reasonable.

 

[Grizzley]

Someone found another can of worms...
Personally, like many on this board, I get frustrated about losing the "freedom of flight".
And like many others on the site, served in the military and due to my "occupation" had the highest security clearance. Upon retiring, lost all form of clearance after a year out; same guy who put it on the line for our "freedom" and peace.
It was a great time when flying to and from the US from Canada could be done with a simple phone call; GATE and CANPASS. For that, I agreed to let both governments' agencies "scrutinize" me and do background checks. But that was OK because it made things more convenient for me and my passengers.
Then, 9-11 and now, there are more agencies that treat all of us who are born and raised here like criminals for the supposed sake of safety. I don't feel safer when I have to partially get undressed and X-rayed to take a plane.
I'm still the same guy, as are you'all. Look at what the DUI thing did to cross border flying (and spending money across the border), less people bother flying private aircraft across the border. The difficulty of bringing your own hunting gun across the border kept many from crossing and using outfitters on both sides of the Northern fence. In Canada, COPA started their own program to introduce kids to flying and it did have to do with insurance and liability, etc. That we all understand in this sue crazy time we live in. But the requirement and responsible thing to do as a person taking people up with us is to carry proper insurance to cover the "possibilities", be in annual, be current, etc.
Yes, there is common sense, but sometimes I wonder if it is in all of us; especially politicians (I will cut my list short because there are many other barnacles on that barge...) and rule makers.

I have given many Young Eagles their first flight and always tried to take up one kid at a time so he or she could sit up front (when I was not flying a tandem) regardless of how many seats on the bus. I looked at it as if I was the kid: I want to see the stuff up close and be able to see how stuff works and ask all the questions about what makes what work and what all the dials and buttons are for and the most important thing: Get my hands on the controls!!!
I would plan to make an approach/fly-over and return for landing, giving parents a chance to take video or pictures of little Johnny or Marie on their first ride in a little plane. Then, I would present them with their certificate and wings (I bought from Sporty's or something) for another picture next to the plane or sitting with headset on, etc. I am sure that we who have introduced someone to this passion that is flying, all found a way to make that first flight so special that it stays with them for life.
But now, I do respect every ones opinion on the subject, but I do not like the idea of someone else (besides all the others) looking up my "skirt" to please a bunch of sissy bureaucrats.
My advice to any parent out there is BE A PARENT!!! I will look after your kid and protect them best I can when they are in my care but its up to you to raise the little farts.
I believe that these kind of measures go against the very spirit of why I got involved with the program.
But that's just me.

Sorry for the lengthy rant, we're getting freezing rain and the visibility is nul, I can't enjoy my "Freedom of flight" today ;-)
Grizz

 

[danschiffer]

After all these years flying Young Eagles. I fly because I love it, it's a passion. Not fun now

I contacted EAA and they were nice about it but I don't see them changing back to old policy. So, since I'm not likely going to submit my SS number online to a strange company and I don't have a huge financial incentive, I'll just stand down on the YE rides. To bad they lost a devoted and caring pilot who loves to introduce people to aviation in an informative and safe manor. On my Nickle bye the way.
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Someone found another can of worms...
Personally, like many on this board, I get frustrated about losing the "freedom of flight".
And like many others on the site, served in the military and due to my "occupation" had the highest security clearance. Upon retiring, lost all form of clearance after a year out; same guy who put it on the line for our "freedom" and peace.
It was a great time when flying to and from the US from Canada could be done with a simple phone call; GATE and CANPASS. For that, I agreed to let both governments' agencies "scrutinize" me and do background checks. But that was OK because it made things more convenient for me and my passengers.
Then, 9-11 and now, there are more agencies that treat all of us who are born and raised here like criminals for the supposed sake of safety. I don't feel safer when I have to partially get undressed and X-rayed to take a plane.
I'm still the same guy, as are you'all. Look at what the DUI thing did to cross border flying (and spending money across the border), less people bother flying private aircraft across the border. The difficulty of bringing your own hunting gun across the border kept many from crossing and using outfitters on both sides of the Northern fence. In Canada, COPA started their own program to introduce kids to flying and it did have to do with insurance and liability, etc. That we all understand in this sue crazy time we live in. But the requirement and responsible thing to do as a person taking people up with us is to carry proper insurance to cover the "possibilities", be in annual, be current, etc.
Yes, there is common sense, but sometimes I wonder if it is in all of us; especially politicians (I will cut my list short because there are many other barnacles on that barge...) and rule makers.

I have given many Young Eagles their first flight and always tried to take up one kid at a time so he or she could sit up front (when I was not flying a tandem) regardless of how many seats on the bus. I looked at it as if I was the kid: I want to see the stuff up close and be able to see how stuff works and ask all the questions about what makes what work and what all the dials and buttons are for and the most important thing: Get my hands on the controls!!!
I would plan to make an approach/fly-over and return for landing, giving parents a chance to take video or pictures of little Johnny or Marie on their first ride in a little plane. Then, I would present them with their certificate and wings (I bought from Sporty's or something) for another picture next to the plane or sitting with headset on, etc. I am sure that we who have introduced someone to this passion that is flying, all found a way to make that first flight so special that it stays with them for life.
But now, I do respect every ones opinion on the subject, but I do not like the idea of someone else (besides all the others) looking up my "skirt" to please a bunch of sissy bureaucrats.
My advice to any parent out there is BE A PARENT!!! I will look after your kid and protect them best I can when they are in my care but its up to you to raise the little farts.
I believe that these kind of measures go against the very spirit of why I got involved with the program.
But that's just me.

Sorry for the lengthy rant, we're getting freezing rain and the visibility is nul, I can't enjoy my "Freedom of flight" today ;-)
Grizz