Diet and Associated Health: Facts, Opinions and Somewhere In Between

[Christina Young]

Great brand-new article, just published a couple days ago. This article discusses atheroschlerosis first, then diabetes. Something we have discussed extensively in this thread and what some in the medical community are finally waking up to:

The cholesterol and calorie hypotheses are both dead — it is time to focus on the real culprit: insulin resistance

 

[Richgj3]

Link didn't work for me

Rich

 

[Christina Young]

Try it again -- I think their website has been intermittently been getting overloaded.

Here's another good one (related):

 

[OldCuby]

That article sure lends support to the book, "Keto Clarity," which I'm just now reading. Thanks Christina.

Sent from my SM-T800 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

 

[sniffler]

Works for me Thank you Christina

July of 2012 I was diagnosed as Type 2 Diabetic.

Using oral Metformin and some pretty simple diet changes I was able to get blood sugar “under control”. That worked pretty good for 4 years although even over that short 4 year time span you could see my A1C creep up every year as well as my daily blood test numbers. Entering the 5th year daily numbers started to become even more erratic we doubled Metformin to morning and night. I have struggled with my weight forever.

When you are just facing weight / body mass issues you are peeved but even though it may very well be it doesn’t feel so life and death. When you are tracking blood sugar it feels much more urgent as you know advanced diabetes sucks big time.

Christina and Randy I can not thank you enough for creating this thread. Randy you showed your typical incredible support and open mind. Christina you hung in there while being challenged. I knew about Atkins and in fact that was part of my diet change when first diagnosed. I was not familiar with the body of work that has been done in the last 10 years or so to scientifically support Keto.

After reading this thread, researching Keto, I thought what have I got to lose. One of the videos I think a TEDtalk she said “as doctors we have to stop using medicine to treat food”.

I know everyone is different, every body is different and what works for me may or may not work for you. In fact we can easily argue that even types of jobs should mean different dietary needs. That said I was stunned by how well my blood sugar responded to the Keto diet. Within days! I have already dropped the morning dose of Metformin and if things hold steady and after conferring with my personal Doctor, am guessing I will drop the Metformin all together. As an added bonus pounds, lots of them, are coming off. I went through the forewarned "Keto Flu” but now two weeks into to it feel better than I have in years.

While thankfully never a drug or alcohol addict I realize now I was, no am, a carb addict complete with all the withdrawal cravings.

I will attache two charts, one showing the last year, one showing the last two weeks. The little droplets on the chart are finger prick blood sugar readings, when I started seeing higher numbers I started increasing the times per day I would read trying to figure out a pattern. Now it doesn’t seem to matter as blood sugar has more or less flat lined no matter when I take a reading.

Will I stick with it, am thinking I will, motivation is pretty strong, would just as soon not have them start whacking off feet and legs due to uncontrolled diabetes but time will tell. I went with a 30 day plan https://www.ketoacademy.com/getbooks/?order_id=18140562&product_id=144010 works well for me as there is nothing to figure out. I also bought a number of the books Christina recommended and would guess over time I will tweak the diet to suit me adding and subtracting dishes.

God Bless you Christina!

Randi

hmm went to post this and looks like things have changed, can't figure out how to attach charts. Will go ahead and post and then try to figure it out.

 

[sniffler]

here we go, have no idea where I wandered into
these are the two charts, one year and 2 weeks, I have been on the diet for two weeks
randi

 

[nanook]

Dr Perlmutter is a good source for why controlling carbs and sugar is essential for your diet. Good place to start is reading his book "Grain Brain" which came out in 2013. He has written a few more since. But you need to move beyond just controlling carbs/sugar to healthy fats, pro and prebiotics, controlling inflammation through your diet. Modern medicine has failed in the nutrition arena. The low fat/high carb diet pushed for so many years, has been a disaster...

 

[JP]

Got to reading this thread back in late March. Spiked my sugars at 109. Weighed 187 pounds. Cut the sugars and starches and took carbs down to 25-50g a day range. Now weigh 163 pounds and feel a good deal better.

 

[NunavutPA-12]

Very interesting discussion.

I'm going through some of the material that Christina supplied and I realized that, for most of my adult life, I've been doing some of those things without really knowing they might be good for me. I normally skip breakfast, have a cup of coffee at 10 am, eat little or nothing at lunch, have another cup of coffee at 3 pm, and eat a fairly substantial supper. I have never avoided fats, but I must admit to excessive carb intake. I eat a lot of "natural" protein (arctic char and caribou being staples). I get plenty of sleep (though I don't know if that's relevant) and don't smoke or drink.

I'm on ZERO medications, with the exception of seasonal allergy meds.

I'm pushing 70 years of age and could stand to lose 30 ( ...okay - maybe 40) pounds. A few months ago I had my blood work done and the doctor said everything was what he would expect in a 30-year old. Of course, I still have a lot of work to do, but it seems there might be something to this "intermittent fasting" thing!

 

[hotrod180]

I think I'm OK (for now) in the diabetes dept,
but I could stand to lose some weight and lower my blood pressure so I googled up this keto thing.
OK, simple- I can still eat protein and fats, just cut out carbs.
Then I started thinking about how much I like eating things which include bread or potatoes.
Hell, even the chef salad I often order at the airport café comes with garlic toast.

 

[DENNY]

When we look back in 10-20 years we may find this is just another way to fix what mom and dad gave us.
[h=1]Google: This Is Why Eating Healthy Is Hard (Time Travel Dietician)[/h] Very few people are willing to make lifestyle changes. Faced with that fact providers run out options quickly.
DENNY

 

[nanook]

Ketosis is a metabolic state where your body is using ketones for fuel instead of glucose. Ketones are a fatty acid that your body can produce (adequate amounts of) if you are (healthy) on the right diet. Most western diets are glucose based and it takes awhile to make the switch, some people shouldn't try to switch. If you are a high end athlete, you need glucose, if you have type 1 diabetes, you don't want to be in ketosis because you need insulin to regulate ketone production. You are slightly ketogenic when you wake up in the morning, you haven't eaten for 7-8 hrs. You can continue in that state by depriving your body of sugar and starchy carbs. You can eat all sorts of healthy foods, just be aware of all the sources of sugar and starchy carbs (most processed foods). There are some important supplements and vitamins you should take, D3 along with K2 so your body is putting calcium in your bones and not soft tissue... You are better off following the Perlmutter or Paleo type diets that spell out the healthy nutrients you need (omega3s), while cutting out the unhealthy ones. Lots of info out there to digest.

 

[hotrod180]

.... You are slightly ketogenic when you wake up in the morning, you haven't eaten for 7-8 hrs. You can continue in that state by depriving your body of sugar and starchy carbs. ....

The old expression is that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day". Is this true?
I generally get up around 6am-ish, but rarely eat before 11 or 12-- just not all that hungry.
Is that a good habit or bad? Should I make an effort to get a little "something in my system"? (another old expression)
I plan on trying to cut back on carbs (bread & taters), but probably won't be willing &/or able to cut them out entirely.

 

[stewartb]

Anyone familiar with Whole 30? It provides a foundation for figuring out what's good for you and what's not (and why) that's hard to dismiss. it's an easy read and worthwhile even if you don't do the 30 day detox. On to Wheat Belly for my next read.

 

[Mwilcox]

Pre-Diabetes

Hearing lots of great conversations about health here! Lots of opinions and perspectives. That is great!

The key here is that healthcare has to transform. Talking about where you are headed before you get there from a health perspective is giving folks a great start on avoiding many disease before they develop! Right now all most all medical care is reactive based - nothing happens until a diagnosis is made then you treat the disease. Doc's are swamped and may spend 4 or 5 minutes with a patient little time to really look at overall health. Your Doc may say you are doing great for the condition you are in, but that isn't really a clean bill of health. Really, there needs to be more focus on optimizing health and avoiding disease before it develops, if you can. If you think about the progression that is kinda typical as someone ages they start going down the path of gaining weight, the cholesterol goes up, the blood pressure goes up, the blood sugar goes up and suddenly you are on the path leading to diabetes, heart disease, stroke etc. it is a progressive decline in health - (think a slow downward grave yard spiral.) But if you are willing to make changes and be objective (progressive maintenance and an annual ). keep track and Get blood work on a annual basis or so (think oil analysis and filter examination) and keep track of those changes over time you can make a huge difference in your health and probably allow you to fly for a much longer part of your life.

The other point is financial, if you currently have hyperlipidemia (high blood fat) you are at a higher risk for being diabetic, higher risk for stroke, heart disease and even dementia. if you are pre diabetic you have a very good chance of developing diabetes. The new meds to treat high cholesterol and diabetes make it highly possible that you may in the near future be spending $30,000 a year just on prescription drug to control your cholesterol and your diabetes if and when it develops. I think it is great to think about this now before it happens and that it is possible to avoid future illness. If by changes our habits, our choices, and thinking about where we will be in 2, 3 of 5 years from now, we can prevent spending that 30k on drugs. So we can spend that 30k on airplanes and other things we might enjoy!

If you can't do it on your own, there are great preventative care providers like Wellness-Partners.org that will provide extensive labs, keep track of the results, and let you know what might be going on before you know it. It's been a great service for me.

Just sayn'

 

[CharlieN]

Time for me to stop in. The day Christina started this thread my wife and I just got back from grocery shopping. We had just bought two nice loaves of bread. Both of those loaves are residing in the freezer unopened. I climbed onboard for this ride. I like it and I believe in it.

From some online reading at the very start of the diet change, I was braced for some internal turmoil. That turmoil essentially did not exist for me. Within days my energy was rising and hunger declined. My wife and I would kind of laugh at the very quick change that even she was observing. In the first few weeks I was not checking my blood sugars; up to that point I was checking my blood when I got up, soon realizing that morning adrenaline-influenced number was just not of great importance to us. FWIW I was commonly seeing 160s to 180 in the morning. Well, checking right now they still are. My real interest has been the daily numbers. These have made impressive changes. On the old diet, 150 to 180 grams of carbs per day as the endocrinologist called for, I would rarely see any number below 150 and commonly fasting was 160 to 170 and two hours after eating was 190 to 200. Now, I commonly see fasting in the afternoon to be 107 to 120s; two hours after, I see 125 to low 140s. These numbers I am happy with, a good start.

Daily life on this diet, I eat less than a quarter what I used to and have consistent energy all day. My wife has been frustrated since I am not prepping meals all the time so she is not getting as much food, which is a good thing now.

I have been an egg and bacon eater for a long time but had cut out bacon when endocrinology was harping about too much fats in the diet. Well, they caused my A1c to rise from the 7.2 I was at to a peak of 8.3, when I made this diet change. The bacon is back.

I am finding now I am not eating bacon and eggs at one seating though, it is way too much food for me at one time. Used to be nothing when bread was included. Our eggs have a lot more cheese in the omelet now. Hers is commonly bigger than mine since many of my yolks still get shared with our cats. The rest of the day is some salad, some days almost no other food till dinner. Salad is interesting, I have never used any salad dressing in the past, plenty of meat and cheese in the mix now.

Dinner, I still cannot eat the layer of fat on the outside of my pork chop, maybe someday. It is just the texture I guess. I try, though.
Recently my computer was down for a few days due to a dead display, so I finally got into reading Keto Clarity, previously had just looked online at what Dr. Westman had up, as well as other associated information. The book is good, it really reflects on how the medical world perceives this way of eating. There are some brick walls out there.

I finally got my Med exam yesterday. Good old doc, he was so afraid I would be having sugar lows and need to get some carbs in me. I have not sensed this to be the case over the 6 weeks or so.

I expected dietary issues with my 8 days on the ground at Oshkosh. No problems there -- breakfast to start followed with plenty of salad available, buy one early in the day and carry half in my backpack till later in the day. I would say I spent about $70 for a head of lettuce divided out in plastic boxes that week.

Christina, thank you for getting my head to make this change in life. It is only the beginning but it is right for me.

I am going to call in and get some bloodwork done, I am curious to see if my triglycerides are dropping yet, they have been in the 200s. My LDLs have been 25 with HDL at 37 for some time but need to see all the other numbers to see if my liver is cleaning out yet.

 

[skywagon8a]

Charlie, try cooking the bacon in the microwave. This will render nearly all of the fat but will retain the crispy bacon piece. This works for 2-4 slices at a time. Trim most of the white fat from the strips. Place the bacon strips not touching, flat between two pieces of paper towel. Run on high for 2-3 minutes, check it. If you want it more crispy run anther 30 seconds. Repeat until you have found the desired crispness.

 

[CharlieN]

The interesting thing is with this diet we need the fat, and I have lived on nearly no fat in my diet all my life so the bacon is one of the few sources I can get animal fat from. This ketogenic diet is kind of like the Atkins diet but is far less protein based and is looking for 4X as much fat than protein. I can only eat so many almonds and peanuts in a day to get my fat.

 

[Christina Young]

Hi Charlie,
Sorry for the slow response.... I was out flying across the continent in my cub! Thanks for the kind words! :smile:

Yes fat has been incorrectly demonized for certainly most of my life, and it took me a while to get over that I had been brainwashed just like everyone else. Eggs are a great ketogenic food - approximately 2/3 of the calories in eggs are from fat - primarily the yoke - which contains important nutrients like biotin, vitamin K2 and choline. See more here: https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2005/07/01/the-incredible-edible-egg-yolk/

Animal fats are the most nutritious you can get. They are loaded with vitamins and nutrients, more so than olive oil and especially the inflammatory industrial seed and vegetable oils (which are completely devoid of nutrients and should never be eaten, let alone used for cooking).

BTW -- I know we have beaten this to death - but I get MOST (70%+) of my calories from animal fats like fatty beef, fatty pork ribs & sausage, fatty chicken (dark meat with the skin on), fatty salmon, bacon, butter, heavy cream, eggs, tallow and lard. And I just got my cardiac calcium score back today from the CAC scan I had before I went on my flying adventure -- I got a big fat ZERO! That means NO hard plaques in my heart at all. And they say a score of zero is something like a 10 year insurance against having a heart attack?

Flying across America and Canada is a lot of fun, but it can be difficult to eat right along the way. Restaurants push very unhealthy foods, and even if you just get the ribeye and a salad they try to trim the nutritious fat off of it, and the only kind of salad dressing most have is based upon the industrial vegetable oils, not heavy cream or real olive oil like it should be. I find that I have to put butter on stuff to get the fat I need for energy.

Meanwhile, the population of obese and obviously metabolically damaged people in both nations has exploded.... it is very sad. These people are eating things that are really unfit for human consumption and avoiding real, healthy foods like the plague.

A couple of other tidbits from my trip -- I did a lot of intermittent fasting, only eating once a day on some days, twice on others and in an 8 hour window. To do this effectively, you need to eat a lot of fat in your meals, or you will be miserable and hungry (if you are hungry you are doing it wrong). It is feasting and fasting, nothing in between (except for water and electrolytes). I've found saturated beef fat to be most effective for fasting.

As a camping food, I carried pemmican in the plane, which I made myself from venison and grass fed beef tallow. Backpacking foods like Mountain House are real processed junk. If anyone wants the recipe I used, let me know and I will post it here. There is a long and storied history behind pemmican, which was the camping food of the native peoples of North America. LONG before Mountain House!

Cheers Christina

 

[S2D]

I really appreciate Randy for putting this up and Christina for all your inputs here. Funny how we go thru life feeling pretty invincible til we start getting older and the little things start becoming major obstacles in our health.
When I came down with hyperthyroidism and was too stubborn to go to a Dr. , I ate everything I could get my hands on all day long. Still haven't completely cured that habit. Like Fobjob said, boredom is one of the big instigators of eating too much.
Still amazes me when I see an obese person stuffing junk food in their mouth like there's no tomorrow.

 

[hotrod180]

The old expression is that "breakfast is the most important meal of the day". Is this true?
I generally get up around 6am-ish, but rarely eat before 11 or 12-- just not all that hungry.
Is that a good habit or bad? Should I make an effort to get a little "something in my system"? (another old expression).....

No response to this question I posed about a month ago....

 

[Christina Young]

No response to this question I posed about a month ago....

Well, it depends what you mean by "breakfast".... er, "break fast". If you mean a morning meal when you first get up, I don't think that is important at all, in fact I believe it may be counterproductive in many people - just serving to elevate insulin when they should be repairing their insulin resistance. I often don't eat until noon as my first meal, and some days I'm really not hungry at all until dinner, if I have eaten a large meal the night before.

The question is -- are you getting the energy you need to function at your best, both mentally and physically without tiring throughout the day, and all the nutrients required for your body to maintain and heal itself?

That said, why eat when you are not hungry? Your body will tell you when you need to eat if it is functioning correctly, i.e. if you are not metabolically damaged or eat junk.

 

[Christina Young]

By request -- here is the recipe on how to make pemmican that I use: Pemmican Manual

In a nutshell, what I did was start with ground venison (shot in my backyard) and grassfed beef tallow from U.S. Wellness Meats. I did not render my own tallow as in the recipe, although you can do that if you want. You want to use fat that has a high melting point like tallow. I think beef, buffalo, moose, etc would all work. It should be solid at room temperature, and at the temperature that you intend to store or transport it in.

First I dehydrated the ground venison in my Excalibur dehydrator for over 24 hours at about 110 deg F. I weighed it, and measured out an equal weight of tallow (50/50 lean, dehydrated meat / tallow by weight). Then I melted the tallow slowly in the microwave - you can also do it on stovetop.

At the same time the tallow was melting, I ground up the dehydrated venison real fine in my food processor. Once the tallow was melted, I mixed in the venison, and some salt, pepper and dehydrated spices. You can experiment with what you like. Chili powder, garlic, onion, etc all work well. Some people also put dehydrated berries in it. Make sure nothing has any moisture when you mix it in, otherwise it will ruin your pemmican!

Then I poured the mixture into cupcake molds, put it in the fridge and let them cool. Once cooled and hardened, I wrapped each individually in plastic wrap for long term storage.

There are two ways you can eat this. First is as-is, like a biscuit, for if you are on the go. I prefer the second way - reconstituted into a warm meal as a soup. Boil a little water and throw in a couple of the biscuits, simmer until the biscuits break up and the meat has softened. If you have fresh veggies you can also throw those in to create kind of a stew.

Here is a link to a .pdf of the classic book profiling the origins of pemmican, the Pemmican wars, and how it shaped the history of much of Canada and the upper midwest U.S.: The Fat of the Land by Vilhjalmur Stefansson

 

[CharlieN]

Well, it depends what you mean by "breakfast".... er, "break fast". If you mean a morning meal when you first get up, I don't think that is important at all, in fact I believe it may be counterproductive in many people - just serving to elevate insulin when they should be repairing their insulin resistance. I often don't eat until noon as my first meal, and some days I'm really not hungry at all until dinner, if I have eaten a large meal the night before.

The question is -- are you getting the energy you need to function at your best, both mentally and physically without tiring throughout the day, and all the nutrients required for your body to maintain and heal itself?

That said, why eat when you are not hungry? Your body will tell you when you need to eat if it is functioning correctly, i.e. if you are not metabolically damaged or eat junk.

I am finding I place considerably less importance on breakfast as I used to. Two months ago I "needed" my breakfast. Although I many times "Feel hungry" when I get up I do not get around to eating for 4-6 hours, Much to my wife's dismay . From then I might not eat again till the end of the day. Far cry from the previous diet. I would say it is easy for me to go 8 to 10 hours without food now.

As a side note I have finally completed my class 3 medical, Dr Randy closed the thread so I can not post the final month of trials and tribulations but the final bit came down to I needed a letter from a doctor stating my diabetes was under control. Well since I dumped the local endocrinologists for driving me deeper into a diabetic state they were out. So I contacted my GP as did the AME's clinic. My GP was on vacation which ate into the two week period a bit followed by him feeling the endo doctor was more suited for the letter. We came to an agreement that he would take on the task and he ordered a fresh blood profile. I brought in both a two week printout as well as a 3 month print from my blood meter.
Once he got into the fresh data such as my Triglycerides dropping faster than ever in our history working together. Quite stable home glucose checks and all other data in quite fine order. He happily wrote the letter that OKC will need when reviewing my Class 3.

The best thing is, my GP was the man whom seven years ago told me I had to cut out the carbs. It took me till now to understand how to properly do it. He is the first doctor recently to not warn me that I MUST eat carbohydrates. And yes, he eats bread.

 

[S2D]

found this one to be easy to understand for us slowlifes. Notice there is no mention of needing salt to preserve it, for those on a restricted salt diet.
I've made sheep tallow for bullet lube, but would probably stick with beef for pemmican.


http://www.makepemmican.com/

 

[S2D]

Christina
Since I doubt i would give up bread completely, what are your views on sourdough bread. For totally unrelated reasons, I've tried to restrict my bread intake to Sourdough bread made by Wheat Montana.
Thanks
Brian

 

[Christina Young]

Yeah, you don't need to put salt, pepper, or spices in it... I do because I eat a metric ton of salt, I put it on everything!

found this one to be easy to understand for us slowlifes. Notice there is no mention of needing salt to preserve it, for those on a restricted salt diet.
I've made sheep tallow for bullet lube, but would probably stick with beef for pemmican.


http://www.makepemmican.com/

 

[Christina Young]

S2D, it depends on the results. If it damages your metabolism and health, then avoid it. I personally don't eat ANY wheat or grains (they wreaked havoc on my joint cartilage and also started giving me metabolic syndrome - both of those were reversed under keto). The once-in-a-while exception is beer..... and drinking craft beers here and there over the course of a few weeks on this trip raised my A1C from 4.8 to 5.0 (that Cold Smoke you guys have in Montana is heavenly!). I just checked my A1C today -- however the home test kits aren't as accurate as a professional lab test, so it could be off. I am back from the trip so back to home cooked food without sugars and starches, and beer only rarely.

I guess bottom line is that it is the results that count. If someone has metabolic damage they are trying to repair (like T2D, atheroschlerosis, etc) then I do NOT recommend any starches, including grains. If someone is metabolically healthy, then do whatever it takes to maintain that health. If you can eat sourdough bread sometimes without getting insulin resistant or damaging yourself, then have at it. Just realize that eating sugars and starches more than occasionally leads to insulin resistance and metabolic damage over time (this is why it is harder for people to keep weight off when they get older... and why so many have big, fat bellies). The rate and extent of this damage depends on genetics (some like me are more carb intolerant) and lifestyle factors.

The easy way to test if you are causing metabolic damage is to test your fasting glucose often, and test your A1C and fasting insulin every once in a while. The first two can be done at home, while the last one you can get from requestatest.

So whether or not someone should eat some specific thing, I guess it is dependent on what your current health is, and what your goals are.

Christina
Since I doubt i would give up bread completely, what are your views on sourdough bread. For totally unrelated reasons, I've tried to restrict my bread intake to Sourdough bread made by Wheat Montana.
Thanks
Brian

 

[S2D]

Thanks.
off topic but did you meet up with any sc ers on your way.
update us on your trip sometime since you snuck thru incognito

 

[skywagon8a]

Yeah, you don't need to put salt, pepper, or spices in it... I do because I eat a metric ton of salt, I put it on everything!

I saw this today Christina, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ch-salt-three-bags-crisps-health-campaigners/