Dead Stick Landing...An Auspicious Start on the Journey to Johnson Creek

[WindOnHisNose]

I saw another thread (http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?48628-Fuel-dip-sticks) has been started with a question about those glass tubes you can use to stick down into the tank and, after calibrating, get a really good estimate of the quantity of fuel that is present. I have one of those for my CT210, and it is a really good tool there. Having said that, I am not so sure it would be a good tool for a super cub, or any other taildragger with wing tanks. One would have to make sure you stick it into the tank the same way, every time.

Mike, I checked the hangar last night when I returned from the trip to Johnson Creek to see if anything else had been tampered with. I am pleased to report that all my tools appeared to be still there, and nothing else was amiss. I am thankful for that.

You folks have offered some good suggestions for making the hangar more secure. I will be acting on these very soon.

Randy

 

[Amy]

I have some horizontal markings behind my site gauges. When there's no fuel, the stripes appear to be horizontal. If there is fuel in the gauge, the light diffraction through the fuel in the gauge will cause the horizontal stripes to appear nearly vertical. It's an easy way to know whether the gauge is full or empty. That's why you sometimes see "barber pole" stripe behind the site gauges.

Glad all turned out OK. Man, I hate it when the fan stops. And the fact that someone violated the sanctity of your hangar makes it that much worse.

-Cub Builder

+1 to this. The Oklahoma Kid doesn't have this yet, but I need to add it. I went to go flying in January and couldn't remember how much time was on that tank of fuel (it was a rough winter!), so topped her off and was glad it did. I usually keep her full and always check caps, but sometimes I cheat and don't dip a finger in the tank. I always do the sniff test after fueling too, just in case. Trust issues are a good thing with preflights.

Glad you are ok and everything worked out, save for the loss of your fuel. It is definitely a good reminder for all of us to be vigilant.

--Amy

 

[Clayton Harper]

It is the violation of ones space that is so hurtful.

 

[Seaworthy]

I'm perplexed. I can see avgas in my sight gauges. Some people cannot--even when full? Inside of my cockpit painted black--- does that make a difference in contrast/ background. When both balls of my sight gauges disappear I still have a couple of gallons in each wing--- but I generally keep half tanks each wing---simply so I know where the gas level is rather than have balls disappear when chock a block full. ( cross country I fill the tanks to the tip of the filler cap--expansion not an issue because I'm going to immediately begin burning it off)

This story is very distressing on many levels. Having someone break into a hangar to steal gas? I hate to be the bearer of bad news Randy--- but it likely someone close by who knows how you access your hangar and the fact that there wasn't a security system. Scary.

Twice I have gassed my plane and forgotten to replace my gas cap. both times at New Holstein because I was too busy shooting the **** with someone or in a hurry. Lou Furlong found it once and returned it to me. The second incidence--someone found it at the pumps and then walked the parking area looking for the aircraft missing a gas cap. The second instance in poured like the hammers of hell that night and I was draining water out of my tank and gascolator for two weeks. So now I am paranoid about gas caps.

Thank god the engine quit when it did. Just as an FYI. Eight years ago I installed the Cub Crafters STC for a Left---Right---BOTH----Off---fuel select STC. Very happy with it.

 

[cubdriver2]

I'm perplexed. I can see avgas in my sight gauges. Some people cannot--even when full? Inside of my cockpit painted black--- does that make a difference in contrast/ background. When both balls of my sight gauges disappear I still have a couple of gallons in each wing--- but I generally keep half tanks each wing---simply so I know where the gas level is rather than have balls disappear when chock a block full. ( cross country I fill the tanks to the tip of the filler cap--expansion not an issue because I'm going to immediately begin burning it off)

This story is very distressing on many levels. Having someone break into a hangar to steal gas? I hate to be the bearer of bad news Randy--- but it likely someone close by who knows how you access your hangar and the fact that there wasn't a security system. Scary.

Twice I have gassed my plane and forgotten to replace my gas cap. both times at New Holstein because I was too busy shooting the **** with someone or in a hurry. Lou Furlong found it once and returned it to me. The second incidence--someone found it at the pumps and then walked the parking area looking for the aircraft missing a gas cap. The second instance in poured like the hammers of hell that night and I was draining water out of my tank and gascolator for two weeks. So now I am paranoid about gas caps.

Thank god the engine quit when it did. Just as an FYI. Eight years ago I installed the Cub Crafters STC for a Left---Right---BOTH----Off---fuel select STC. Very happy with it.

And you find Randy's story distressing :lol:

Glenn

 

[Cub Builder]

Glad it worked out the way it did, Randy. I saw this sign while walking around Lake Hood. Not sure if it would have deterred the thieves in your case.


View attachment 20779

A few years ago we had a plane land at our airport at night and went through the tiedown area with a big screwdriver and popped the doors on nearly every plane tied down out there and removed all of the high end avionics. We tracked down the plane (which turned out to be a rental) and who was flying it at the time and gave the information to the FBI. In the words of the FBI SAIC, "Stop bothering us. We have bigger fish to fry than dealing with your airplanes." We have the same sign posted at our airport, but posting it was apparently a waste of material since the FBI and police don't care. Oddly enough, a police officer that lives next to the airport was out walking his dog on the ramp and spent some time chatting with the thieves, but apparently didn't suspect there was anything going on. He also didn't think it was worth following up on breaking into a dozen aircraft and the theft of $50,000 worth of avionics.

-Cub Builder

 

[cubdriver2]

I trust everybody. I don't have a door or a lock on my hangar but I do have this sign



Glenn

 

[Clayton Harper]

If you are ready for comic relief, I'm ordering you a bottle for NH.

 

[WindOnHisNose]

Clayton, that would be perfect :lol:

Randy

 

[Eddie Foy]

Who does the shooting when you are not there?

Eddie

I trust everybody. I don't have a door or a lock on my hangar but I do have this sign



Glenn

 

[cubdriver2]

Who does the shooting when you are not there?

Eddie

When I was a kid I wanted to build a hotrod. Down the road was an older guy who owned 5 or 6 1932 Fords. I wanted to hang around with him but everybody told me to stay away because he was nuts. Nobody messed with his stuff. I finally stopped and started talking old cars with the guy and became a life long friend. He was a little different but not crazy like everybody thought. Over a few beers one day I told him that everyone thought he was crazy, he laughed and said " You don't need to be crazy to get people to leave you and your stuff alone, they just need to think you are "

Glenn

 

[soyAnarchisto]

Thievery aside - don't leave ever the ground without a decent pre-flight - which always for me includes verifying fuel levels visually inside the tanks and sumping for water in the lines. Occasionally I forget like everyone - and I kick myself and promise to be more thorough.

Just like bike thieves - there's a special place in hell for hangar thieves.

 

[cubdriver2]

Thievery aside - don't leave ever the ground without a decent pre-flight - which always for me includes verifying fuel levels visually inside the tanks and sumping for water in the lines. Occasionally I forget like everyone - and I kick myself and promise to be more thorough.

Just like bike thieves - there's a special place in hell for hangar thieves.

Don't be so tough, it might have just been some lost Okie on his way to JC and just needed some fuel in the middle of the night to continue East so he wouldn't be late.

Glenn

 

[n40ff]

I have one of those signs, "....survivors will be shot again" but have also added another one,


" Because of the current high cost of ammunition warning shots will NOT be fired!"


Jack

 

[cubdriver2]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...l1313&_nkw=no+trespassing+sign+metal&_sacat=0


Glenn

 

[Bayou Navigator]

Why didn't you have the fuel selector on both for your take-off? Thank god you didn't, or you would've had the problem away from the airport. But, why?

 

[WindOnHisNose]

Excellent point, Bayou. I don't have a "both" position on my aircraft and there have been times when I would have liked to have that. There is another thread here on supercub.org that describes the advantages of that setup. You have pointed out a downside of having that setup in the situation that I found myself in, one that I had not considered. I am thankful that the failure occurred right after takeoff...if it had been 3 minutes later I would have been putting down in a residential neighborhood.

Randy

 

[Cubus Maximus]

I had a similar takeoff once in my old Cub, the engine quit (crosswind gusting 20+ of course at about 20 feet in the air after a long taxi from a barn to a farm strip. Fought it back to the runway only to have the engine catch and the airplane zoom off the ground again before I pulled throttle back (forgot to do that while fighting said Cub in a crosswind with no power) and got it stopped a couple feet before the corn stalks.
It had plenty of fuel, the culprit was some filmy debri that plugged up the only outlet on the right tank (like the book says, I should have took off and landed on the left tank). It was enough to let fuel flow at idle, but not at full throttle.

 

[barbwire]

Thanks for sharing Randy.
Glad your ok and a very close call.
I thank people who share this type of information because it makes us all step back and think. I cannot tell you how many times I have filled the tank, checked or added oil the night before a big trip to get an early start. I then will not go back the next morning to check those things. I just made the trip up to AK and did that every night before I turned in. Granted I was camping under the wing on that trip but I do the same thing in my hangar at home.
Thanks again for the humility to share good information!
Tom

 

[WindOnHisNose]

Folks, I just added some photos about sight gauges to the following thread:

http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?50185-PA-18-Fuel-Gauge-Inaccuracy

..........................

I bring this up because had I recalled some of my college physics I would have noticed that since fluids refract light a great deal, and given that air does not, a careful look at my sight gauges would have demonstrated that there was air in the glass column. Someone here pointed this out to me, and I thank whoever that was because that knowledge could save someone's life.

Here is a photo of my sight gauge with the tanks a bit above half full...

Please take note of the fact that the white line in back of the tube is relatively straight across at the 3/4 mark, but significantly deviated at the 1/2 mark in the three point configuration...physics at work.

Here is a photo of the tube with a full tank...

Please note that all lines are bent, consistent with refraction of light.

I trudged across to Darrel Starr's hangar to visit and told him I was preparing for my presentation and described my sight gauges. He took me to his beautiful super cub and much to our chagrin noted that his newer sight gauges were designed such that the metal jacket does not permit one to observe the refraction differences between fuel and air...he will not be able to use this simple trick...

I clearly and painfully understand the fact that sight gauges are not a good substitute for crawling up on top of a ladder to confirm that the tanks are full, but these photos might add a bit to your understanding of the sight gauges and information that we can reliably gain from them.

Randy

 

[SteveE]

Nice report Randy,,, but I do have a question from your previous report..... You went to college?

 

[aktango58]

Nice report Randy,,, but I do have a question from your previous report..... You went to college?

Not all of us can get by on our good looks, charm, and superior flying skills

 

[WindOnHisNose]

SteveE, our team awaits the opportunity for you to come to the Twin Cities so that we can provide a thorough...and I mean thorough...flight physical for you.

So, I got my diplomas online. Is that a problem for you?

:lol:

Randy

 

[SteveE]

I might take you up on that physical. I have seen pics of "your team". [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phdigger123]

I might take you up on that physical. I have seen pics of "your team". [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Be careful. Your blood pressure may spike.

 

[aktango58]

Randy,

Dont you guys cut off unwanted, non-essential growths that cause trouble?

 

[Frodo]

Folks, I just added some photos about sight gauges to the following thread:

........

I clearly and painfully understand the fact that sight gauges are not a good substitute for crawling up on top of a ladder to confirm that the tanks are full, but these photos might add a bit to your understanding of the sight gauges and information that we can reliably gain from them.

Randy

I just saw this thread. I had a very similar experience. My PA-12 co-owner and friend were pre-flighting. I looked at the fuel guages (Wing root tubes, not the stock guage) and could see the level on right wing, but could not see the "line" of fuel in the left. Friend said he had topped both tanks on his prior flight. I was tempted to write if off as the level was above what is visible in the tube (which does happen), but the little voice said, just check it from above to be sure. I removed the tank and stuck my finger down, nothing. Grabbed a stick, tapped the bottom of the tank, nothing on the stick. The WTFs that go through your mind are endless. We have a both position on the valve and always fly that way and park with it in the off position. There is no way he flew the left tank all the way to empty, and since the right tank was full, he must have topped off.

We topped off the tank, flew, and then topped them off again. The next day I noticed fuel weeping over the top of the left wing. There was a pin hole about 1/3 from the aft of the tank on the top. Now, did all the fuel "weep" out? I doubt it. There should have been some fuel still on the bottom, even as far forward as the filler tube if the fuel had drained down to the level of the leak. My current theory, is that someone siphoned the fuel out, and due to the original 1947 tin tanks, their aggressive shoving of the hose in there cause a crack at one of the spot welds.

Bottom line, never assume your plane has not been "touched" by human hands since your last flight. Ours was also in a locked hangar. Second point, you have see or touch the fuel or it is not there. Third point, I need to see if your refraction technique works for my plane.

 

[Eddie Foy]

I think some of you folks need better locks and a security camera.

 

[pittsdriver]

There's two lessons here. One is to visually check the fuel in the tanks. The other is practice power off approaches. Seems like the norm anymore is to carry a little power in a shallow glide path and wheel landing. With 31s it is much easier to wheel land but with a little practice it will three point power off nicely. Leading me to the Cub I'm re building. The pilot looked at the fuel sight tubes and couldn't see any balls so he assumed it was full. He had never practiced power off approaches and was at around 45-50 mph in a very steep approach and when he pulled back to level off it quit flying about 30' in the air and pancaked in tearing off the right wing, gear engine mount and damaging the left wing. He was very lucky to walk away. If he would have known to add another 10 mph the airplane would have been un damaged. Don

 

[Darrel Starr]

As I recall Randy recounting this episode, the rate at which the plane sank with a completely dead engine, not one idling, pretty much took his breath away but he responded with his training and was able to get it down safely.