Cost to replace a Lycoming O-235 with an O-320 in a PA-12 Super Cruiser

[mjdonovan]

I am considering purchasing a 1947 Super Cruiser in excellent condition, however, it only has a Lycoming O-235 (10hp) engine in it with nearly 2,000 hrs on it. I am trying to determine what I could expect to pay for swapping it our with a Lycoming O-320 (150/160hp). Someone commented to me that it would cost $40K to $50K for the engine upgrade, between the cost of the new/overhauled O-320, the required STC, and the modified baffles. Can anyone comment on this who has experience in upgrading an engine on a Super Cruiser.

 

[Paul Heinrich]

It would be far less expensive if you found a 12 that already has the engine upgrade. You'll eventually want one with flaps, 18 gear and tail, etc., etc., and those mods aren't cheap.

I sent you a pm.

 

[PerryB]

Welcome to the slippery slope.

 

[TurboBeaver]

If your flying a 2000hr engine now, why not just find a mid time 0320 and the STC(Kenmore) to do it and for around $ 10K you could be upgraded into 150hp.???

 

[mjdonovan]

That was my original thought, but from what I am hearing, it is more like $40K to do so, between the O-320, the STC, and the baffling/exhaust changes.

 

[mike mcs repair]

Why not compare a 180 horse kit. Bet the$$ are not much different. http://www.crosswindsstol.com/ has both kits. And i think univair offers also



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[bob turner]

Do you have to have a Super Cruiser? I just saw a mid time PA-18 on Barnstormers for $75K. If you go this route you will easily have 75k in a mid-time 12.

The bargains now are the higher horsepower Champs. I got my Decathlon for $43K, and while it is not a Super Cub, it does most things extremely well.

 

[algonquin]

I have a -12 in the build process now for the last six years or so. So here's what I've found: it will take many years more than you ever think it will. Next I bought around 2500.00 in mods and STC and still don't have everything like the engine STC. Now all I really need is instruments and firewall forward and I have close to $25,000 in it. In real world money I'll have over $25000 more in it, this doesn't include any labor. If your a IA that will help a lot, if not add another $25,000.00. If you want to fly airplanes buy one that's done they way you want. For $75,000.00 you can buy a outstanding -12 that's done and flying. I'm not trying to be negative just this is my experience. I'm lucky to have other airplanes to fly and I love working on airplanes.

 

[Flynhitim]

I am considering purchasing a 1947 Super Cruiser in excellent condition, however, it only has a Lycoming O-235 (10hp) engine in it with nearly 2,000 hrs on it. I am trying to determine what I could expect to pay for swapping it our with a Lycoming O-320 (150/160hp). Someone commented to me that it would cost $40K to $50K for the engine upgrade, between the cost of the new/overhauled O-320, the required STC, and the modified baffles. Can anyone comment on this who has experience in upgrading an engine on a Super Cruiser.

I did my O320A2B with 160 pistons, for around 20 grand, $800 for the baffling, $285 Kenmore STC, plus other engine accessories maybe $600. I’m 5 years into my project with at least 12 grand in mods and STC’s! And new flap kit, Atlee 31.5 fuel tank= $6,500.00


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[stewartb]

Been there, done that. Buy a Supercub. Better yet, buy an experimental Supercub.

 

[Paul Heinrich]

You're eventually going to want flaps, skylight, double pulley trim, 18 gear and tail feathers, lightweight starter and alternator, extended baggage, dual doors, float fittings and cargo pod fittings, etc.

unless the plane you're looking at already has these mods installed you will spend $40-50

Last time I checked Charlie Center's short mount kit was over $40 grand, with the engine and propellor.

The 12 I have listed in the classifieds has everything you truly want for a 12 and, best of all, everything is brand new.

Just my opinion.

 

[stewartb]

When I bought Charly's kit it was $1100.00. Holy inflation, Batman!

 

[BC12D-4-85]

I had a PA-12-180 with Crosswinds STC, Crosswinds STOL later removed, various propellers fixed and constant speed, Dodge 60gal fuel, long wings/flaps, big tail, long Cub gear, big baggage, Cessna seat, and on and on. Wheels, skis, and floats. EW 1270# on wheels.

But by all means fly the stock plane first then others that are modified and compare. Then review the cost vs benefit.

Like I said above: "Had". It was a good floatplane. It was not a PA-18 on conventional gear. Why has been discussed here frequently.

Edit: Didn't finish my comments properly. The factory PA-12 is a nice balanced plane. Adding an O-320 adds performance. I flew one with that setup on floats but stock tail and no flaps. Very nice float plane. But before they get all modded up the owner should have a look at useful load and goals for later use. Big engines can be thirsty and CG has to be considered. Years ago an upgrade project might have been affordable. Today it's prudent to buy it already done.

Gary

 

[Steve Pierce]

I did my O320A2B with 160 pistons, for around 20 grand, $800 for the baffling, $285 Kenmore STC, plus other engine accessories maybe $600. I’m 5 years into my project with at least 12 grand in mods and STC’s! And new flap kit, Atlee 31.5 fuel tank= $6,500.00


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$20K is what I was thinking. 2000 hours on a 2400 hour TBO engine. I flew my O-235-C1 to 2600 hrs and the only reason I pulled it was excessive oil consumption, wore the rings out.

 

[Charlie Longley]

There’s a lot of good PA-12’s with 150 hp for sale. I would look for one with Super Cub flaps, gear and a GW increase.

I just sold my 150 hp PA-12 to buy a new glider. I think I want a Super Cub once my bank account recovers. Probably a 180 hp L21.

 

[don d]

Went from O-235 to my best running O-320 a few years ago. Bought tri-pacer for 5K. Sold airframe for 3K. Sold prop for 1200. Sold O-235 for 2500. Did have to overhaul carb 800. I'm ahead 900. Did work myself.You have to keep your eyes and ears open and luck does't hurt.

 

[av8rtom]

Finished mine a couple of years ago after several years work and lots of $$$$. Lots of mods... I started with a 0-235 that only had a couple hundred hrs since o-haul and sold it for a couple thousand...., I found a 0-320 factory new on Barnstormers for 19k and hung that on with Charly Center's STC. I have a nice airplane!
This pa-12 had been a derelict for about 13 years and was in pretty bad shape! The engine I found was for a homebuild project that never happened...., it shuffled around for about 10 years before I came across it. Patience!!
When I started, I made a list of everybody's engine STC, and then just started searching on a regular basis..., it paid off. I was looking for an engine I could use Kenmore's STC for since it was the least expensive and would take the least amount of modification to install, but when I found this one, I grabbed it and I'm a happy camper! Even though the install cost a little more overall, I'm glad I went with Charly's STC and would do it again!

 

[algonquin]

I'll sell you my -12 project for what I have in it for $25,000.00. All the STC's, SC tail and gear, all control surfaces covered not painted. SC flaps, new boot cowl, frame has been mod'ed for two doors and all common mods , primed and painted. Wings need to be rebuilt. Also all the parts off the plane when I took it apart.

 

[Flynhitim]

I'll sell you my -12 project for what I have in it for $25,000.00. All the STC's, SC tail and gear, all control surfaces covered not painted. SC flaps, new boot cowl, frame has been mod'ed for two doors and all common mods , primed and painted. Wings need to be rebuilt. Also all the parts off the plane when I took it apart.

Re read your post, that’s a steal!


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[mjdonovan]

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I have decided against the PA-12 I was looking at. Just too many things that i would need to upgrade; Engine, flaps, wheels/struts system. I'll keep looking for that PA-18.