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Considering EX3

Cardiff Kook

FRIEND
Sisters, OR
Well that escalated quickly.

Rather than do all the work to make my 1950 pa-18 how I want it I am considering buying my buddy’s EX3.

Wants on my plane include:
1. New engine (and prop)
2. Engine monitor
3. Fuel flow
4. More baggage

Lots of time to figure that out that I feel like I dont have. It would be alot cheaper but plane still would still not be exactly what I want.

So why not spend even more money

Pluses are brand new plane built by someone I know. It also cruises about 30 mph faster with same fuel burn which would be nice for my 250nm idaho runs- significant range increase as well for when I am fighting a headwind the whole way.

My buddy’s built a few carbon cubs. 3 to be exact.

Looking at planes for sale online I dont see much difference in pricing for fx3s ve ex3s. That seem right? Would think there would be a premium on factory build.

Anything to consider? Plane looks pretty much perfect and is only a couple years old. He builds them to the fx spec- doesnt get creative.

If I did a prebuy would I need someone who really knows Carbon Cubs? Honestly the plane is only a couple years old with 200 hrs and no history of issues- wondering if I even need a prebuy given I know builder/owner (famous last words)- I am used to buying 40-75 year old airframes where it def makes sense.

Give me your thoughts.
 
In my experience the FX3 brings more money than the EX3 but the value depends on the builder. I have seen some ex builds that were scary and others that were every bit as good as the factory.

I would get a pre-buy done. How close are you to Yakima or Tac Aero (Hood River)?
 
I thought you really liked that Cub. Are you trading it or selling it?
My cub is great for what it is. Super fun to tool around in for an 1-1.5 hrs. Very happy I bought it.

Utility value outside of short flights is minimal

Want a new engine due to calendar months since overhaul. Engine actually performs well and doesnt make metal- but it has been a LONG time since overhaul. Some say that doesnt matter- but psychologically it does to me. Starting to fly more with kids and I am not willing to take any undue risk.

I should have mentioned another want: new seats.

I would probably sell.
 
Well that escalated quickly.

Rather than do all the work to make my 1950 pa-18 how I want it I am considering buying my buddy’s EX3.


Anything to consider?


Insurance! Have you checked on insurance prices yet? I looked at CC's several years ago and the insurance quotes I received were not in my budget. Maybe with lots of SC time it will be more reasonable. I had 400+ TW at the time.
 
In my experience the FX3 brings more money than the EX3 but the value depends on the builder. I have seen some ex builds that were scary and others that were every bit as good as the factory.

I would get a pre-buy done. How close are you to Yakima or Tac Aero (Hood River)?
Very close to Tac Aero.

Aren't these kits pretty complete? What made the builds “scary?” Genuine question- sure there are lots of ways to screw it up
 
Build quality and being able to follow instructions. I have seen the main wiring harness zip tied to the tube. Have seen two where the front interior panels where installed on the wrong side of the tabs that keep them from hitting the rudder pedals. Buddy went in the river when his rudder pedal got hung up on the side panel. I work on quite a few factory Cub Crafters stuff and so when an EX comes in I am in tune to things that are not done correctly.
 
Hmmmm, I thought you bought a 185 for the utility value outside short flights….
I did. Becoming highly proficient in a 185 to go into some of the places I want to go in has proved challenging. None of them are places a 185 could not easily get in- its the pilot that needs to up his game a bit more- which I am working in. The 185 is def a sweet airplane and I am glad I have it.

I have about the same hours logged in both planes but feel far more proficient and comfortable in cub when coming into new strips in the mts. Im not sure I am actually that much more proficient in cub- but def feels that way and that counts for something.

But ya- what you say is tru.
 
I did. Becoming highly proficient in a 185 to go into some of the places I want to go in has proved challenging. None of them are places a 185 could not easily get in- its the pilot that needs to up his game a bit more- which I am working in. The 185 is def a sweet airplane and I am glad I have it.

I have about the same hours logged in both planes but feel far more proficient and comfortable in cub when coming into new strips in the mts. Im not sure I am actually that much more proficient in cub- but def feels that way and that counts for something.

But ya- what you say is tru.
On a side note- my issue is with 185 is coming in slow- i know thats it. I come in about 57 knots when pretty light- plane stalls at 43.

I would say anything below 55 knots and I really start to feel a loss of control authority in the wagon.

I have a stock, naked wing- no vgs. I read your comments elsewhere (and others) about vgs not being of much benefit in your opinion on a cessna wing. I know others had differing opinions, such as stewarb- but I have held off on the vgs on that plane as sounded like jury was out (not to hijack my own thread.)

So ya.
 
No offense intended, and your experience with the two planes is logical. The 185 is not a particularly difficult airplane to fly, but there’s a lot more inertia there than in a Cub. That requires the operator to apply a bit more “authority”, ie: it’s not a “fingertip feel” airplane during landing.
As to VGs, my opinion is simply I wouldn’t bother on a stock wing.
Put a Sportsman cuff on that 185, and you’ll notice a significant difference.
 
No offense intended, and your experience with the two planes is logical. The 185 is not a particularly difficult airplane to fly, but there’s a lot more inertia there than in a Cub. That requires the operator to apply a bit more “authority”, ie: it’s not a “fingertip feel” airplane during landing.
As to VGs, my opinion is simply I wouldn’t bother on a stock wing.
Put a Sportsman cuff on that 185, and you’ll notice a significant difference.
I second the idea of a sportsman cuff. I have it on my 180 and it's spoiled me forever. Really helps low speed handling - as well as merely lowering the stall speed. Doesn't seem to impact cruise much at all - maybe a couple knots
 
On a side note- my issue is with 185 is coming in slow- i know thats it. I come in about 57 knots when pretty light- plane stalls at 43.

I would say anything below 55 knots and I really start to feel a loss of control authority in the wagon.

I have a stock, naked wing- no vgs. I read your comments elsewhere (and others) about vgs not being of much benefit in your opinion on a cessna wing. I know others had differing opinions, such as stewarb- but I have held off on the vgs on that plane as sounded like jury was out (not to hijack my own thread.)

So ya.
I’ve noticed the same thing. Mine seems to like final at 60mph.

Friend of mine had an early 182 for awhile, he put sportsman and vg’s on it and said his approach speed dropped at least 10mph. Guess I’ll be ordering a sportsman here soon.
 
What problems? Guys lucky enough to have a Cub and a Skywagon don’t need to try to make the Skywagon fly like a Cub. They fly great as they are. If a guy wants to chase it? Stop effing around. Add WingX, Sportman, and VGs and be done with it.
 
I’ve noticed the same thing. Mine seems to like final at 60mph.

Friend of mine had an early 182 for awhile, he put sportsman and vg’s on it and said his approach speed dropped at least 10mph. Guess I’ll be ordering a sportsman here soon.
60 Knots and neutral trim for mine works wonders!
 
What problems? Guys lucky enough to have a Cub and a Skywagon don’t need to try to make the Skywagon fly like a Cub. They fly great as they are. If a guy wants to chase it? Stop effing around. Add WingX, Sportman, and VGs and be done with it.
You are correct in that the 'Wagon's" perform just as they were designed to in stock condition. The "problem" is that it is human nature to always want more...or in this case less, as in lower landing speeds and lower minimum control speeds. The only method to achieve these objectives is to alter the input data to the corresponding physics equations for lift. We have learned that the most efficient methods are altering the airfoil (cuffs), energizing the airflow to delay flow detachment (VG's) and increase wing area (wing extensions). It's fairly simple math and a simple concept. Either be happy with the design flight envelope OR modify your steed of choice to expand that envelope in the desired direction, (slower speeds in this case). There will always be an operating envelope. It takes discipline to both know its boundaries and operate within it.
To be clear, I am not trying to make our wagon fly like our Cub. Our 180H w/3190 up gross has been wearing the Sportsman and Micro VG's for over 25 years. I accomplished these modifications for both my family's safety and the safety of my passengers. I prefer to meet mother earth at the slowest possible speed under control at all times. These two modifications do exactly what they were designed to do and meet my objectives.

TR
 
Getting into places you can’t get out of is counter to my own 30 years with my Skywagon. Improving takeoff was a priority for mine and a 520 fixed that. WingX is the more popular mod these days. I have a few friends that also added the cuff. The constant among them? They all envy my Cub.

My 180 comfortably goes in and out of 600’ with average loads. If I’m flying a lot I can reduce that number. As I said before, for a guy who also has a Cub, let alone and EX3? I don’t get it. To each their own.
 
Cardiff, the reason I added VGs was to improve aileron authority. I had read lots of comments that said they worked for that, and still do. I never found that to be true with my Micros. My motivation was to improve control at takeoff. Landing was never a problem. VGs absolutely do provide a difference but in my case not an important one. For showing off short landings on a calm day? Meh. Not my thing. If you ever try to take off from a very narrow strip with tall trees and crossing winds you may experience a significant and uncontrolled wing lift on one side, so essentially an uncommanded steep turn at critically slow climbing speed looking at trees that are too close for comfort. And sometimes the ailerons don’t respond. That’ll send most pilots to the catalogs to look for solutions. The best solution is to either fly low in ground effect to gain speed to penetrate the turbulent layer, or stay on the ground. Fly the same strips in the same conditions enough and you’ll develop your own strategies based on familiarity. Beware there’s always the potential of that one gust at the wrong time. They say takeoffs are option but landings are mandatory. That’s true but landing is the termination of a leg and offers better control with knowledge of conditions. Takeoffs are all about judgement, and once committed, you’re all in.

My Skywagon is a tool, and it’s awesome in the wind. I’ll take it out on days I won’t push the Cub out of the hangar. I don’t need wing mods on a Skywagon. I have a Cub for that. That’s me doing me. You do you for your own reasons.

Flying is fun, most of the time. Talking about it? Not so much. Cheers.
 
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Some things I have found on EX vs FX Carbon Cubs.
Whjen I manipulated the controls they felt stiffer than I was used to. This picture shows the main battery wire zip tied to the control torque tube.
IMG_20200814_132942.webp

This is a nut plate riveted to the bottom cowl between the firewall flange and the bottom cowl. The nut plate should be riveted to the bootcowl flange. Also note they ended up moving the rivets. That will cause a problem down the road.
PXL_20210829_122603661.MP.webpPXL_20210829_122723180.MP.webp
Cowl does not fit flush because the nut plate is riveted in the wrong place.
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Trim tabs required for that extra bit of elevator control in the flare installed with fabric pop rivets (#30 drilled hole) instead of #4 PK screws (#45 drilled hole).
PXL_20210907_175208448.webpPXL_20250131_145551121.webp
 
Aileron pulley not rotating on the bushing because the washer is pinched between the pulley, bushing and housing.
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Bolt on the rudder/brake pedal indexed incorrectly allowing the nut and cotter pin to dig into the side panel. The side panel is also retained at the firewall by a welded tab that keeps the panel from interfering with the rudder pedal. Had a friend loose control and run into the river because his rudder pedal hung up on the side panel because the panel was on the wrong side of this tab. You can see the nut in the reflection in the carbon fiber.
PXL_20231113_211446529 mark.webp
 
The crankcase vent is routed into the 4 to 1 exhaust collector. It cokes up and starts blowing oil out of every orifice on the engine and creates back pressure that won't allow the engine to run right. One of the Flying Cowboys had this issue flying across the country. It got so bad on a Sunday morning in Kansas City that he called SJ who gave him my number. Come to find out they had not been cleaning this vent out at oil change.
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