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Champion/ACA Owners....Anyone?

Ya, my IA has a set of scales and does a fair number of weigh jobs in New England. He can’t think of a time when a customer was happy with the results.....
 
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mam90 said:
Ya, my IA has a set of scales and does a fair number of weigh jobs in New England. He can’t think of a time when a customer has happy with the results.....
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can a plane be unweighed once it's been put on scales by an A&P?
 
I would imagine if it’s being weighed as the result of alteration or repair, probably not. If you have a current weight and balance and just weigh it out of curiousity, then I suppose there could be some discussion... But I’m not an AMT or IA.....
 
Bart23Sept said:
hmmm, i was going to weigh my 7ECA when the wings and annual are done. now you've got me a'scared.
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I weighed my 1965 7ECA when I bought it. Seller and W&B history said it was 1020 lbs. We replaced the “unapproved - no 337” tractor store battery with a Concorde (about 5 lbs lighter - surprise!), and the heavy pull-starter (O-200) with a Sky-Tech lightweight (about 7 lbs lighter, and weighed it. Came in at 1027 lbs. I was quite happy that it was that close to “as advertised”...

i don’t believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or “calculated” W&B data. If the plane is actually heavier that the calculated data shows, I want to know that. I don’t understand pilot / Owners who refuse to weigh their planes “because it will weigh more”... Guess what’s? It already weighs more, and if you’re pushing the W&B envelope at the “assumed” lighter weight, you may be flying over gross, and possibly outside the CG envelope – but you won’t know one way or the other. Wouldn’t you rather know for sure, before you break something (maybe even yourself or a loved one)?
 
Hit “Post” too soon... As to the OP’s original question, the “Citabria-Decathlon-Scout ~Pilots - Owners - Enthusiasts” group on Facebook has far more activity then the Bellanca club site, and the ACA factory folks hang out on FB and answer tons of questions.. Dale Gauger in particular is the “go-to” guy for answers.
 
I am with Steve Pierce, and ready to take heat for it. Weighing a 7ECA is apprently not risky, but weighing a Cub will yield a single place airplane. Jim is partially correct; you do want to know what you really weigh. But if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, put a note on a 337 and send it to OKC. That can make your perfectly good Cub virtually unsellable.

We have a local Super Cub with a 400 lb useful load. It is just another Cub, not one with big tires or anything. It doesn't even have heavy duty gear or big tires. But all its 337s say "will be weighed on assembly". No mechanic with any sense will falsify a weigh-in, and you have to have a weight and balance.

Another local Cub - a J-3 - took a trip to the scales. Only mod is C-90-8 and metal prop. 850 lbs! That leaves 370 lbs useful load. That is the owner, me, and zero fuel, and still way over gross. Climbs like a rocket with the 90 and a metal prop.
 
Local had a PA-12 that had been recovered, factory seating and baggage, radio, electrical, and normal panel. Stock except for an O-320, 74x?? prop, 8.00x6 and Clevelands. "Weighed" whatever it was from the factory or about mid 900's plus very slight adds for the engine/prop/wheels and had the papers to prove it. Probably still does for the new owner. Everybody happy.

My 7ECA was over 1100 and 7GCBC started at about 1170 then ate a Big Mac.

Gary
 
One would think a clipped wing would weigh less.

The Super Cubs seem to have come from the factory at 1077 lbs. (at least the 150 Cubs). The J-3s were apparently weighed, and range from about 690 to 725 lbs. If you put a J-3 on the scales today you will be lucky to be under 800 lbs. I have seen Super Cubs on wheels approaching 1300 lbs from scales.

An owner who wishes to legally carry two adults and full fuel would do well to not send any hint of an event on scales to the records branch. All you need is a separate sheet signed by an A&P. I am not at all sure the signature is required. Do not mention a weighing event on a 337. That is an opinion, but I believe it to be perfectly legal. If you want, you can always state "Weight and Balance and Equipment List updated." I do that in the logbook and on the 337.
 
I should add - I was very careful with my Super Decathlon. I weigh 190, the Greek weighs maybe 115, and legally I think with the two of us and zero baggage we can carry 37 gallons - very close to full. Computed, not weighed.

We did have a 7ECA here for a while that was weighed after a recover with lots of automotive urethane. It was within five lbs of original factory weight. Be interesting to know if Champion had more honest scales than Piper.
 
Bart23Sept said:
Hi folks,

New to the site in search of Stewart Systems info, I own a '68 Champion 7ECA.

Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft? There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better! :)

Thanks,
Bart
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Owned 2 Champs a Scout then a SC and went back to a Scout. It fits my needs better and for me the advantages outweigh cons. Champ clan as I call it keep pretty quiet here to avoid brutal beatings at gatherings. Welcome to SC.org. Much knowledge and motivation here in a struggling industry.

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scout88305 said:
Owned 2 Champs a Scout then a SC and went back to a Scout. It fits my needs better and for me the advantages outweigh cons. Champ clan as I call it keep pretty quiet here to avoid brutal beatings at gatherings. Welcome to SC.org. Much knowledge and motivation here in a struggling industry.

View attachment 34787
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We still love you Eric ;-) ok you have a cool dad and lovable dog.

Glenn
 
My local EAA chapter has equipment they lend out, including scales and a really cool bore scope. I don't see why one couldn't weigh a plane without adult supervision and not have it be part of the permanent record. You don't even have to level it if all you want to know is the weight.

My early Citabria has a useful load of 496 lbs. I'm going to be a weight freak when it needs to have the covering stripped off. Even 20 lbs is worth going after (over 3 gallons of gas giving me another 30 minutes of legal air time. I'll take it).

Off topic, I just found this sub forum and wanted to learn more about Supercubs anyway so I'm stoked to be here. I much prefer forum content over facebook feeds. The news feed nature of it means you get recent posts whether you're interested or not, and less ability to browse content that might interest you today.
 
Welcome! My other plant is a 61 ECA I use the A portion quite a bit ;). When I grow up I may go for a scout. Until then I’m building a SC.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Good deal. I hope its an active successful site. Most Aeronca/Champion/Bellanca type forums are not very active.
 
thanks guys. there are so many of these airplanes out there it just seemed like a no-brainer to do this!

:)
 
aftCG said:
My local

My early Citabria has a useful load of 496 lbs. I'm going to be a weight freak when it needs to have the covering stripped off. Even 20 lbs is worth going after (over 3 gallons of gas giving me another 30 minutes of legal air time. I'll take it).
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Might be a 'Airport Legend', but story goes one guy building a small fabric plane took the time to use thin washers and to cut off the ends of every bolt to minimum length on rebuild. Put all the cut off ends in a can. At the end the can contents were over 5 lbs.

Don't know why you couldn't just have the correct length of bolt... and use thin nuts anywhere in shear, but the idea goes that if you add washers and longer than needed bolts, it adds up.
 
Great! I just signed up. But doesn't appear to be a way to start a thread in the Decathlon area.

Hope you have better luck than the Aeronca forum has had.
 
bob turner said:
Great! I just signed up. But doesn't appear to be a way to start a thread in the Decathlon area.

Hope you have better luck than the Aeronca forum has had.
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Go to that area of the forum, and start typing in the "Thread Title" box. Presto! The edit dialog box for the text of your post appears right before your eyes... (This coming from the guy who couldn't figure out where to add a "signature line" - only to have it pointed out as being directly below the other dialog which I HAD successfully used... :oops: )
 
Bump. The new ACA forum that Bart took the time and expense to create needs some participants. I am sure it will not be as big as Supercub dot org, but it does not deserve to die. Just drop in and add a comment. Or ask a question.
 
Thanks Bob! I'll slug away at it a little longer and we'll see what happens. If people like the club forum or facebook better then that just is what it is.
 
Scout and Champs are darn good planes. Just according
To what your mission is. To a true Cub guy ALL other airplanes are of a lesser pedigree.......lol
 
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Champs deserve a good website. Bart has done a very nice job, and now has maybe three regular posters.

I will always be a J-3 guy with a warm spot for Super Cubs, but I own a Super Decathlon, and consider it probably dollar for dollar the best buy in aviation. Cost about the same as a J-3 in similar condition. I lust for a more or less Supercub.org type forum for the ACA products. So much to learn . . .
 
For the past 9 years I've been flying a 90 horse 7FC/EC conversion. It's been a pretty good airplane, no beauty queen mind you but it does okay. Having been originally an FC with original Delco-Remy pull starter and generator and having had Millman spars put in just before I acquired it it's a tad on the portly side with an EW of 975 lbs but I still get 800 fpm out of it at sea level on a standard day. I've done quite a bit of roaming in it but I have to admit that getting it across the Sierras is a bit on the marginal side. Before the Champ my brother and I had an M7-235C which had no trouble going anywhere. To be honest though I've always wanted a Supercub and I mean since way back when I was 14 or 15 years old and the reason I ended up with the Champ was because it was selling for a price I couldn't, in my right mind, refuse. But I'm at the age now, maybe I have ten good years of flying left in front of me, so I'm looking for a Cub to fulfill that bucket list item. Again, it doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a plain old PA18-150 that I can barnstorm around the country in and hit every dirt and grass strip I can find along the way.

So if anyone is looking for a nice 90 horse Champ I'm most likely going to be selling mine.
 

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