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champ question?

J

jason crozier

Registered User
Gillam Manitoba
Hello guys, sorry i don't got a supercub but i do love to fly and own a champ. I am posting this here because i have been reading on here for a long time and there is alot of knowledge here. I want to do some winter flying and would like to winterize my plane a bit more. I know that i can block off some of the cold air that flows over the engine but i am not sure if there are templates out there that i can use or should i just make up my own? I don't want to block off all the air but i would like to run the engine a bit warmer than it is. Anyone know of where a guy could get a template or should i just wing it? If i just wing it any tips on how much to restrict airflow? thanks a million. Jason Crozier

p.s the champ is a 7gc with 0-290d2b
 
Depends on temperature. I cover the entire hole that directs air into the oil sump on the Cont. powered Champs. I reread your post. Duct tape part of the oil cooler and see what the oil temp does. I have seen people duct tape the two inlets in the nose bowl a few inches to get CHT up on extremely cold days.
 
i have blocked off the oil cooler scoop but was wondering about the holes on the nose bowl and underneath by where the exhaust pipes exit. it is pretty hard to stick duct tape to a frozed surface. temps to be flown in would be-15c ,no colder than that..
 
I had a 90 hp, no oil cooler. The FAA guy that shall remain namless 8) explained that you should tape off most of the sump cooling hole, and a bit on the inside of the cylinder vent areas. If the plane is not getting temp, just put more on. If it is getting hot, take some off. I got to where I was taping around each hole, and completly blocked the vent for the sump. (-20 f), and found it helped. I also used strait 30wt oil.

To get it to stick, fly the plane, or warm it up on the ground, then through the cover over the engine for about ten miniutes. The heat from the engine will warm up the cowl enough to tape it down. If you can not get electricity or a hanger. With electricity, just put a ceramic heater in the cowl with covers.

Duct Tape is a great trial and error use. I finally made a cover for the sump vent, but it was just a little rectangle.
 
I've heard that if you put a piece of window (bug) screen over cowl inlets, it will slow and difuse the cold air enough to keep the engine warmer, but still provide even cooling. If someone tells you this ain't legal, remember, this is just hear-say....
 
yes i agree that it is hard to get off, i tried it over my oil cooler when i was in a pinch and it left one heck of a mess, i also know it likes to peel paint especially when you rip the fabric and tape it up. i found that out the hard way too. i might look into the screen idea. thanks guys, and if anyone else has any ideas i am all ears...
 
Reducer takes the tape gum off really nice from older paint. Recent paint...takes that too! Before pulling the tape too hard in the spring... if it looks like it's going to take the paint off..soak a rag in reducer and hold it over the tape before removing.

Cheers,
Wayne
 
Champ Heat

I have a champ with 115HP lycoming. I routinely run it here in northern MN in temperatures well below zero (it was minus 44 here yesterday). I put a thin piece of cardboard (like off the back of a note pad) behind the oil cooler for the winter. This slows down the air flow past the oil cooler. Even at -20, our oil temps are 180 at least - if you can believe the old gauges. Remember to take it out in the spring or shortly after takeoff you will see your oil temp head for redline.
 
old gauges, i think i am going to buy a new oil temp gauge as the one i have is an old cessna gauge with just an green arc for temp and not actual degrees. then i might get a better reading out of it and not having to guess if it up to temp.
 
Champ Heat

I think my gauges work. I also have a tanis heater on the plane, and plug it in for a few hours before use. Usually when I turn the key the oil is already at 100, and within a minute or two is up to 150. In the summer on floats I have seen 210 on a warm muggy day during a takeoff run. If you lower the nose during the climb out it will drop rapidly to about 190 and hold there during cruise.
 
Champ heat

Oh yeah - one more thing, you don't need to apologize for flying a champ. Built right and light they perform beautifully. My 7AC can haul 2 180 pound adults, and all the gear you need for a 4 day fishing trip to Canada, plus 36 gallons of fuel off the water on any day. Not that I would ever do that, but I have heard it could. And at less than half the price of a cub. Cubs are great planes and I love flying them, and may some day have one, but they are a little over priced for us poor people.
 
yup i definatly think i better buy a new one. the engine can run for a few minutes before the needle even moves over the arc, not too good . i would also like to know how warm the engine is when i preheat it in the winter. how do you like the tannis heater? right now i just use a interior car warmer for a couple of hours, but i don't like the fact that it may light my baby on fire..
 
i also agree that champs are great planes, a poor mans cub. i am quite new to flying and haven't flown a cub but i am happy with it so far. with the rear seat out i can haul a fair jag of moose meat..
 
jason - if you are considering a preheater you might want to take a look at the Reiff system - I have one in my Supercub and it works very well and it cost substantially less than the Tanis. Mine heats both the sump and the cylinders. Here in Western WA where it doesn't get very cold in 4 hours or so it will have the engine to right around operating temperature before I crank it over. Anyway, worth a look if you are considering one.

Here's a link the their home page.

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/index.html
 
Jason,

The fact that the temp needle doesn't immediately move isn't a problem (does the temp gauge in your car move immediately?). There might be a minimum recommended temp before operation above idle RPM though.

The fact that your oil temp gauge isn't marked except for a green arc (and presumably a red line) isn't necessarily bad either, though you should find out what the limits are for your engine. We all crave more information, but the accuracy of these gauges, even new, leaves something to be desired.

You can check your gauge at 212 deg by placing the probe in boiling water. Note where the needle is on your gauge.

I understand that you have an O-290 in your Champ. I suggest there is a chance that Lycoming one time published some operating suggestions or guidelines for their engines (I know Continental did). There may be suggestions for minimum oil temps for operations above certain RPM's (I think Continental recommended 100 degrees minimum for operation above 1500 RPM).

John Scott
 
this is why i love this site, lot's of knowledge and good ideas, without some jackass bashing you or your ideas. thanks guys. i will check out the heating system and also will look into establishing some temps for my gauge. i never thought that maybe lycoming had published some operating guidlines with regards to temps, i will look into that as well.
 
Someone might want to try gaffers tape, it is a cloth backed tape that sticks as well as duct tape but almost never leaves a residue(if it does it is easy to clean off). I've used it on all sorts of things including clothes it goes through the wash fine. The only time I've used it on aircraft was to tape static ports on gliders tied outside so I don't know how it will hold up in flight/exposed to engine heat. Gaffers tape can sometimes be found at higher end camera stores $$$ or try someplace online. I think I got my last roll at tapeonline.com. It is expensive stuff compared to duct tape ($10 a roll) but once you get used to having it around ya can't live without it.
Gregg
 
There might be a minimum recommended temp before operation above idle RPM though.

I understand that you have an O-290 in your Champ. I suggest there is a chance that Lycoming one time published some operating suggestions or guidelines for their engines (I know Continental did). There may be suggestions for minimum oil temps for operations above certain RPM's
John Scott
Click to expand...

A few years ago I bought the Lycoming operators manual for the O-320 in my Super Cub and it said that if the engine accelerated smoothly as you pushed up the throttle then it was warm enough for takeoff.

I also recommend the Reiff preheat system. I flew my cub in Alaska for three winters before the Air Force kicked me out of the state and I used a northern companion the first winter and the Reiff kit the 2nd and 3rd. Both work pretty well, especially the Reiff kit and it only adds a pound. No experience with Tanis but I like Reiff.

Have fun.
 
gregg,

Can't say i heard of gaffers tape but will look into it, it would be nice to have a tape as good as duct tape but easier to clean up and friendlier on paint.

slowmover,

Thanks for the heater review, i would always test the throttle slowly to full before i took off to make sure it didn't stumble. Do you know if any lycoming operating manuals are online?. I will check that out as well
It is a good thing it's too cold top fly cause i got alot of surfing to do.
 
Surfing in Gillam? Where - in Hudson Bay with the polar bears? :lol:

Champs are sweet planes, fun to fly. Don't apologize!

Anne.
 
Anybody who has ever used gaffers tape in the place of duct tape never looks back. While many people use the names of these two products almost interchangeably, the difference is dramatic, and easily worth the difference in price. Gaffer tape has a high quality adhesive that does not leave a sticky residue when it is removed. It is made of true cotton cloth (duct tape is a vinyl product with reinforcing cloth threads) so it tears straight and has great durability. Technicians in film, video and stage work prize gaffers tape for its matt finish which does not reflect light. That means you can make a quick repair that is all-but-invisible to the camera or the audience.
Click to expand...

http://www.thetapeworks.com/gaffer.htm

http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/Tape/tape.html

http://www.identi-tape.com/gaffer.htm

Gaffers tape is used primarily in the film and theater industry. I used it a lot in college as a theatre tech for our drama dept. It is preferred because it is considered stronger and has no shine.

My brother tapes up the inlets on his Champ every winter. Decreases the inlet area by about 15-20% I would say. He is Nathan K Hammond here on the site, Pm or email him and I'm sure he'll respond. Also check out the National Aeronca Association's forum:

http://www.aeroncapilots.com/forum2.html

It was recently overhauled and is setup very much like SC.org now.
 
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