mountainmind
Registered User
Palmer AK
I am not a frequent poster on this site… I am more of an absorber than a contributor, but one day I hope to have the experience of y’all to switch that around! I love reading the new build threads and thought I would share mine to get people’s input, ideas, critiques, etc. This site has helped me immeasurably in planning for this build. Big thanks to everyone for the years of sharing their knowledge, and hopefully this thread will help spur more great conversation and banter. And its nice to write this all down and think out loud as there really is a lot to consider with a project/investment this big.
Through a rather long story, I got my hands on a PA18 project. I would love to go experimental, but I intend to do some work with this plane so it has to stay certified (part 91 and potentially some 135 work one day). Also, the long-term savings in insurance will eventually make up for the increased cost of certified parts. I have some friends whose insurance is double for experimental with the same hull value (at least here in AK). And it’s amazing how many great certified parts there are for cubs these days.
I am currently flying a fairly stock PA18. 150hp narrow deck, 6” extended gear, 35s, belly pod, baby bushwheel, minimal panel. It outperforms my flying ability any day of the week, but I am excited for this opportunity to build my dream PA18. We will likely sell my wife’s Taylorcraft and she’ll keep the 150 cub, but we’ll see if finances allow that… I will be doing basically all of the work on this build myself (under the supervision of a very experienced cub builder/IA). I have a fair bit of experience from projects on my old Pacer a lot, my wife’s t-craft a bit, and my current cub quite a bit, but excited to dive deep and learn a ton throughout this build.
My career is in video production and I would love to make a series of high-quality build videos, but I know all too well how time-consuming filming and especially editing is… Maybe if there was a big enough demand I could charge a small fee for the videos, but I kind of doubt that there is enough demand to make it worth it. Maybe on a future build I can work with a seasoned cub builder or two, and make a high-quality build series alongside them. Anyway, chime in if you think there is a demand, or in a dream world I could work with someone like Javron on a video-based builders manual. I would love to help make airplane building (Super Cubs in particular) more accessible to everyone…..
As for the project, I have a lot of the parts already, and much more to order. Pretty much stock narrow body PA18 frame with slight bend in the top deck from a wreck. I’ve debated hard getting an all-new frame from Airframes, especially with how much money I’m about to drop into this build. But I believe the frame is in pretty good shape (it was stripped and rebuilt in 2021, then wrecked last year). We’ll see for sure once I get it sandblasted and inspected.
The plan is to sandblast it, put it in a jig and add the many mods… and then powder coat it.
-Will be going with the Willow Mountain Ranch lowered floor STC. Seems like this is how cubs should all be built! Reduces weight, has more space, flat floor (nice for sleeping in), 180lb baggage area, and will have a 3rd seatbelt, and I believe gives you a wide range of what you can use for floor material.
-L-21 glass - really nice for the occasional times I’ll have a 3rd passenger…not often but it happens. Very tempted to stick with the lighter D windows, but I really like the L-21, good for looking for traffic, taking pics, etc.
-Will add overhead x-brace, tail x-brace, firewall x-brace, float fittings, belly pod tabs, which will also double as tabs for custom-built lumber rack, similar to Atlee Dodges but I built my current one a little different….(yes I have and will get another fixed-wing external load permit).
-Folding front seat. And folding rear seat/Carbon Concepts under seat storage.
-Shoulder harness fittings welded in. Headset/helmet hooks welded in.
-Upper baggage door only. I currently have no baggage door and its a pain sometimes, but having used a cub with upper baggage door only and folding front seat fits all my needs. No problem getting moose quarters in/out. And even with the Willow Mtn Ranch super extended baggage area, the upper baggage door gives plenty of access to items way in the back.
-Willow Mountain Ranch battery box STC. Relocates the battery (I have an earth-x) to between your feet. I have this on my current cub and love it. Makes it super easy to find the brakes, holds your phone or small water bottle on the top, keeps battery cable run as short as possible. Doubles as floor reinforcement where your heels rest/rub. Cabin heat tube runs underneath it, and I have a long 2+¼” scat tube I can slip over the 2” one and stick in my boots, give to the passenger, or use as a defroster if I want. Then I just remove it in the summer time.
-All glass for both top and bottom of the door. Make glass on top door overlap fuselage a bit on the back to help with drafts.
-Willow Mountain Ranch swinging rear cross bar STC. I currently have a removable cross bar, but I always seem to forget it under all of the gear I just packed in the cub and its a bit of a pain to get in/out. This STC makes the cross bar hinged so you can easily swing it out of the way to load/unload gear, then swing right back in place. Really slick.
-Debating on flooring, but leaning towards carbon. A friend’s cub is aluminum and I like the way he bent up the edges to keep shit from falling down the sides. Also kept really small holes in all the flooring and sealed up really well wherever possible. I hate how much dirt and junk falls down…
-About 90% sure I am going to do Oratex fabric. Had a lot of friends do it recently with good results. All the bad stories I’ve heard stem from people cutting corners I think. I really hate all the chemicals doing lots of poly repairs (I seem to put lots of holes in things). Love how light and strong Oratex seems to be. Don’t like the cost, but I think it's worth it.
-Mostly all fabric interior (I think, still up for debate…), no headliner. Maybe carbon around the fuel selector/trim handle area for maintenance purposes, or just leave it open…I’m not overly concerned with aesthetics. It is a tool foremost.
-Atlee titanium lifting eyes
-Last 3ft metal belly
-Lift handles on both sides
-I’d like to do a larger sliding left side window, and eliminate the frame for the small triangular window.
-Lots of nut plates (thanks Bill Rusk for your detailed notes on this and everything else on your thread! Really helpful for experimental and certified alike)
Undercarriage:
-I love my 35’s on 6” extended gear, but if I can afford it I’ll get Alaska Gear Company 3” extended Titanium gear (unless they come out with 6” extended by next winter). If I don’t have the budget for titanium, I’ll put the 6” gear on my current cub onto this one.
-Alaska Gear Company TiSHX (if I can afford them, otherwise I’ll just use the bungees I have until I can afford them).
-Alaska Gear Company double puck brakes and their new high-pressure brake master cylinders.
-Alaska Gear Company 10650 lightweight wheels and 35” bushwheels
-Custom wheel pants (I am tired of rocks flying up into my tail feathers, mud on my wings, and rocks in my prop…will need field approval)
-Alaska Gear Company titanium tail spring (or just use the current one I have if when I run out of money)
-Long step+fuel step
-Baby bushwheel
Wings:
-Basically stock round tip wings. I ordered all-new Dakota drilled spars and ribs. Going to put the wings together this winter, and do the rest of the build mostly next winter (that’s my plan at least).
-Will do 24 gal Dakota tanks. I’ve heard some people don’t seem to get as much usable fuel out of them, but I’m hoping that’s not the case because I feel like I’m always bringing extra fuel as I do a lot of long trips. Not a big deal but I’d rather have it in the wings than in the belly pod, although there is a weight penalty with the 24gal tanks…
-Sounds like I should run 3-strand shielded 20 gauge wire for the Whelen 650 LEDs. Is there another good LED that only requires a single wire I heard about??
-NOT planning on Atlee Dodge tie down brackets. I am planning on girth hitching 6mm pre-sewn prusik cord around the spar where the atlee tie down bracket typically goes. Then putting an inspection panel here that hides it. Don’t need an STC cause its easily removable. 3000lb+ rating each. Serves same function as Atlee Dodge tie down, but should only weigh a couple of ounces instead of 1lb each!
-I am planning on blasting and powder coating all the steel wing parts. Epoxy prime aluminum wing parts.
-Flaps… planning to go with PSTOL flaps. Will definitely install PSTOL reinforcements, but if I run out of money I might go with standard flaps and upgrade later.
-Alaska Gear Company aluminum lift struts
-Wip 2000lb gross weight
-VGs
-NO landing/taxi light in wing. Don’t like the extra weight or placement in the wing.
-NOT going to extend the leading edge back to reduce scalloping. From everything I have read I am not convinced that the added weight will help increase performance / reduce speed at the same deck angle.
-Atlee oversized rudder and elevators
Firewall forward stuff:
-Atlee Titanium firewall
-180hp engine. Debated on this a lot, but it came with the project and only has 1000hrs on it, so I’m gonna keep it. With other weight savings, I can stomach the extra weight and I know I will love the extra HP especially heavy (which I am a lot) and on floats (which I intend to do a lot of float flying).
-Cub crafters 180hp cowling and STC. I got this out of convenience/with the project although it was expensive, but I do really like the split nose bowl and composite cowl (light), round air filter, and included headerless fuel system in the STC, which I will be utilizing. Also included rear mount oil cooler which I like - keeps weight off the nose, eliminates the spider, keeps nose bowl clean and more room for the 3” air inlet I’ll have.
-Sensenich ground adjustable composite prop. Basically a must these days I think, especially with the 180hp added weight and how ridiculously heavy the ‘club’ prop was. (I overhauled the metal one I had and traded my buddy for the Certified Sensenich ground adjustable prop…I guess someone still wanted the heavy old club).
-Skytech lightweight starter (have an extra sitting on my parts shelf).
-8 amp alternator - will be plenty of juice for my needs, but still trying to figure out if I can get a field approval for it. Anyone know of how to get field approval??
-Rubbert exhaust with 3in inlet. Already got this and it should fit be better than the Sutton exhaust I have on my 150hp cub. Rubbert is light and supposedly puts out great heat (important as I do a lot of winter flying in AK). Great experience working with Logan too- he was super helpful.
-Rubbert baffling (haven’t ordered this yet, but it looks like they make really nice baffling too)
-Steve’s gascolator - already have it and love it on my current cub.
-Hopefully install a Surfely magneto. Currently have two slicks both with impulse couplings. Both were just 500hr’d so I’ll probably run ‘em unless I can sell one and buy the Surefly.
Panel:
Gonna keep it as simple as possible….
-ipad mini mounted right in the middle of the panel. Have a similar setup currently and love it w/ forefilght and a Stratus.
-EI CGR 30P engine monitor. Debating wether to add fuel flow??
-Air avionics air com radio. Would like to talk to some people who have used this, but looks like a great option. Has a built-in certified altimeter which is neat (would eliminate old altimeter and I also have altimeter on foreflight). And apparently, the intercom is good enough to not need a separate intercom like I currently have. Want some pireps on the intercom first though.
-Switches for mags, all breakers, light switches, carb heat, mixture, etc on the panel (nothing in wing roots).
1099lb weight goal – there are still some variables, but this is assuming I go w/ titanium gear + tail spring, TiSHX, Oratex, accessory mount alternator, and work hard to keep everything else as light as possible…
Will try to keep this thread updated with progress and pictures as I go! Anything I'm forgetting?
Through a rather long story, I got my hands on a PA18 project. I would love to go experimental, but I intend to do some work with this plane so it has to stay certified (part 91 and potentially some 135 work one day). Also, the long-term savings in insurance will eventually make up for the increased cost of certified parts. I have some friends whose insurance is double for experimental with the same hull value (at least here in AK). And it’s amazing how many great certified parts there are for cubs these days.
I am currently flying a fairly stock PA18. 150hp narrow deck, 6” extended gear, 35s, belly pod, baby bushwheel, minimal panel. It outperforms my flying ability any day of the week, but I am excited for this opportunity to build my dream PA18. We will likely sell my wife’s Taylorcraft and she’ll keep the 150 cub, but we’ll see if finances allow that… I will be doing basically all of the work on this build myself (under the supervision of a very experienced cub builder/IA). I have a fair bit of experience from projects on my old Pacer a lot, my wife’s t-craft a bit, and my current cub quite a bit, but excited to dive deep and learn a ton throughout this build.
My career is in video production and I would love to make a series of high-quality build videos, but I know all too well how time-consuming filming and especially editing is… Maybe if there was a big enough demand I could charge a small fee for the videos, but I kind of doubt that there is enough demand to make it worth it. Maybe on a future build I can work with a seasoned cub builder or two, and make a high-quality build series alongside them. Anyway, chime in if you think there is a demand, or in a dream world I could work with someone like Javron on a video-based builders manual. I would love to help make airplane building (Super Cubs in particular) more accessible to everyone…..
As for the project, I have a lot of the parts already, and much more to order. Pretty much stock narrow body PA18 frame with slight bend in the top deck from a wreck. I’ve debated hard getting an all-new frame from Airframes, especially with how much money I’m about to drop into this build. But I believe the frame is in pretty good shape (it was stripped and rebuilt in 2021, then wrecked last year). We’ll see for sure once I get it sandblasted and inspected.
The plan is to sandblast it, put it in a jig and add the many mods… and then powder coat it.
-Will be going with the Willow Mountain Ranch lowered floor STC. Seems like this is how cubs should all be built! Reduces weight, has more space, flat floor (nice for sleeping in), 180lb baggage area, and will have a 3rd seatbelt, and I believe gives you a wide range of what you can use for floor material.
-L-21 glass - really nice for the occasional times I’ll have a 3rd passenger…not often but it happens. Very tempted to stick with the lighter D windows, but I really like the L-21, good for looking for traffic, taking pics, etc.
-Will add overhead x-brace, tail x-brace, firewall x-brace, float fittings, belly pod tabs, which will also double as tabs for custom-built lumber rack, similar to Atlee Dodges but I built my current one a little different….(yes I have and will get another fixed-wing external load permit).
-Folding front seat. And folding rear seat/Carbon Concepts under seat storage.
-Shoulder harness fittings welded in. Headset/helmet hooks welded in.
-Upper baggage door only. I currently have no baggage door and its a pain sometimes, but having used a cub with upper baggage door only and folding front seat fits all my needs. No problem getting moose quarters in/out. And even with the Willow Mtn Ranch super extended baggage area, the upper baggage door gives plenty of access to items way in the back.
-Willow Mountain Ranch battery box STC. Relocates the battery (I have an earth-x) to between your feet. I have this on my current cub and love it. Makes it super easy to find the brakes, holds your phone or small water bottle on the top, keeps battery cable run as short as possible. Doubles as floor reinforcement where your heels rest/rub. Cabin heat tube runs underneath it, and I have a long 2+¼” scat tube I can slip over the 2” one and stick in my boots, give to the passenger, or use as a defroster if I want. Then I just remove it in the summer time.
-All glass for both top and bottom of the door. Make glass on top door overlap fuselage a bit on the back to help with drafts.
-Willow Mountain Ranch swinging rear cross bar STC. I currently have a removable cross bar, but I always seem to forget it under all of the gear I just packed in the cub and its a bit of a pain to get in/out. This STC makes the cross bar hinged so you can easily swing it out of the way to load/unload gear, then swing right back in place. Really slick.
-Debating on flooring, but leaning towards carbon. A friend’s cub is aluminum and I like the way he bent up the edges to keep shit from falling down the sides. Also kept really small holes in all the flooring and sealed up really well wherever possible. I hate how much dirt and junk falls down…
-About 90% sure I am going to do Oratex fabric. Had a lot of friends do it recently with good results. All the bad stories I’ve heard stem from people cutting corners I think. I really hate all the chemicals doing lots of poly repairs (I seem to put lots of holes in things). Love how light and strong Oratex seems to be. Don’t like the cost, but I think it's worth it.
-Mostly all fabric interior (I think, still up for debate…), no headliner. Maybe carbon around the fuel selector/trim handle area for maintenance purposes, or just leave it open…I’m not overly concerned with aesthetics. It is a tool foremost.
-Atlee titanium lifting eyes
-Last 3ft metal belly
-Lift handles on both sides
-I’d like to do a larger sliding left side window, and eliminate the frame for the small triangular window.
-Lots of nut plates (thanks Bill Rusk for your detailed notes on this and everything else on your thread! Really helpful for experimental and certified alike)
Undercarriage:
-I love my 35’s on 6” extended gear, but if I can afford it I’ll get Alaska Gear Company 3” extended Titanium gear (unless they come out with 6” extended by next winter). If I don’t have the budget for titanium, I’ll put the 6” gear on my current cub onto this one.
-Alaska Gear Company TiSHX (if I can afford them, otherwise I’ll just use the bungees I have until I can afford them).
-Alaska Gear Company double puck brakes and their new high-pressure brake master cylinders.
-Alaska Gear Company 10650 lightweight wheels and 35” bushwheels
-Custom wheel pants (I am tired of rocks flying up into my tail feathers, mud on my wings, and rocks in my prop…will need field approval)
-Alaska Gear Company titanium tail spring (or just use the current one I have if when I run out of money)
-Long step+fuel step
-Baby bushwheel
Wings:
-Basically stock round tip wings. I ordered all-new Dakota drilled spars and ribs. Going to put the wings together this winter, and do the rest of the build mostly next winter (that’s my plan at least).
-Will do 24 gal Dakota tanks. I’ve heard some people don’t seem to get as much usable fuel out of them, but I’m hoping that’s not the case because I feel like I’m always bringing extra fuel as I do a lot of long trips. Not a big deal but I’d rather have it in the wings than in the belly pod, although there is a weight penalty with the 24gal tanks…
-Sounds like I should run 3-strand shielded 20 gauge wire for the Whelen 650 LEDs. Is there another good LED that only requires a single wire I heard about??
-NOT planning on Atlee Dodge tie down brackets. I am planning on girth hitching 6mm pre-sewn prusik cord around the spar where the atlee tie down bracket typically goes. Then putting an inspection panel here that hides it. Don’t need an STC cause its easily removable. 3000lb+ rating each. Serves same function as Atlee Dodge tie down, but should only weigh a couple of ounces instead of 1lb each!
-I am planning on blasting and powder coating all the steel wing parts. Epoxy prime aluminum wing parts.
-Flaps… planning to go with PSTOL flaps. Will definitely install PSTOL reinforcements, but if I run out of money I might go with standard flaps and upgrade later.
-Alaska Gear Company aluminum lift struts
-Wip 2000lb gross weight
-VGs
-NO landing/taxi light in wing. Don’t like the extra weight or placement in the wing.
-NOT going to extend the leading edge back to reduce scalloping. From everything I have read I am not convinced that the added weight will help increase performance / reduce speed at the same deck angle.
-Atlee oversized rudder and elevators
Firewall forward stuff:
-Atlee Titanium firewall
-180hp engine. Debated on this a lot, but it came with the project and only has 1000hrs on it, so I’m gonna keep it. With other weight savings, I can stomach the extra weight and I know I will love the extra HP especially heavy (which I am a lot) and on floats (which I intend to do a lot of float flying).
-Cub crafters 180hp cowling and STC. I got this out of convenience/with the project although it was expensive, but I do really like the split nose bowl and composite cowl (light), round air filter, and included headerless fuel system in the STC, which I will be utilizing. Also included rear mount oil cooler which I like - keeps weight off the nose, eliminates the spider, keeps nose bowl clean and more room for the 3” air inlet I’ll have.
-Sensenich ground adjustable composite prop. Basically a must these days I think, especially with the 180hp added weight and how ridiculously heavy the ‘club’ prop was. (I overhauled the metal one I had and traded my buddy for the Certified Sensenich ground adjustable prop…I guess someone still wanted the heavy old club).
-Skytech lightweight starter (have an extra sitting on my parts shelf).
-8 amp alternator - will be plenty of juice for my needs, but still trying to figure out if I can get a field approval for it. Anyone know of how to get field approval??
-Rubbert exhaust with 3in inlet. Already got this and it should fit be better than the Sutton exhaust I have on my 150hp cub. Rubbert is light and supposedly puts out great heat (important as I do a lot of winter flying in AK). Great experience working with Logan too- he was super helpful.
-Rubbert baffling (haven’t ordered this yet, but it looks like they make really nice baffling too)
-Steve’s gascolator - already have it and love it on my current cub.
-Hopefully install a Surfely magneto. Currently have two slicks both with impulse couplings. Both were just 500hr’d so I’ll probably run ‘em unless I can sell one and buy the Surefly.
Panel:
Gonna keep it as simple as possible….
-ipad mini mounted right in the middle of the panel. Have a similar setup currently and love it w/ forefilght and a Stratus.
-EI CGR 30P engine monitor. Debating wether to add fuel flow??
-Air avionics air com radio. Would like to talk to some people who have used this, but looks like a great option. Has a built-in certified altimeter which is neat (would eliminate old altimeter and I also have altimeter on foreflight). And apparently, the intercom is good enough to not need a separate intercom like I currently have. Want some pireps on the intercom first though.
-Switches for mags, all breakers, light switches, carb heat, mixture, etc on the panel (nothing in wing roots).
1099lb weight goal – there are still some variables, but this is assuming I go w/ titanium gear + tail spring, TiSHX, Oratex, accessory mount alternator, and work hard to keep everything else as light as possible…
Will try to keep this thread updated with progress and pictures as I go! Anything I'm forgetting?
