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Carrying a Firearm in an Aircraft

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KevinB thanks for the heads up on the app Legal Heat. Answers to many questions under one roof.


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i went to a vikings game in minneapolis to see the stadium, i like engineering stuff, had a 4 inch pocket knife in my pocket that my grandpa had givin me,my dumb, guy at the door said nope, thought of the planter somewhere deal, but 2000 people behind me so i gave it to him, he threw it in a bucket with all the other stuff he was collecting and took it home to add to his garage full collection, smiling all the way. i will never go to a vikings or any football game again, im hoping this fuel deal will kill the nfl-nba. but nice stadium. just cant fathom how they get the roofs on those buildings?? unreal. just remember what state your in if you have a mind slip.

Keep an eye on your state government surplus auction site. Here in Montana TSA gives the knives to the state who in turn auctions them off. You might get lucky and see hour knife come up.

https://m.publicsurplus.com/sms/all...ation=-1&zipCode=&region=all,nd&search=Search
 
Went up to the airport once to fly down to a pals ranch to shoot prairie dogs. Pulled the plane out of the hangar per my usual routine and then transfer my gun to the plane from my truck. When I looked across the airport I noticed Obama was in town and the snipers I assume from the secret service where on top of some buildings about 400 yards away. Kind of had to smuggle the gun to the plane. Luckily did not get shot in the process.
 
M Pence comes and goes through Krut, They do not always announce his presence but I do not like it when I am just getting a Young Eagles event up to speed and all the guards and SWAT teams are getting perched on the roof tops. They let us continue at least. Just another day of hosting events.
It also appears they setup more than one airport as decoys.
 
One would think the GA area of the ramp would or could be more relaxed than being near the Red Box of the TSA which is only active 3 hrs a day. But KRUT is under the same security as Logan airport where that C 402 flies to three times a day. There is plenty of drug trafficking here, I bet they carry, but heck they are approved to do their task.

Yep it is crazy. My Uncle flys for the government hunting coyotes. Him and the government trapper/gunner got out of the cub at the airport with a bunch of empty shells and a shot gun. There was some very unhappy people. And the puddle jumping airline was no where around. And this is at a very small airport.
It was a case of people taking their authority way too far.


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In the lower 48, has there been a time where discharging a firearm was necessary, in the context of aviation “periops”? It’s probably safe to say that even in ID/MT, the last thing you need if going down in the sticks is a firearm. If you survive the crash, your best bet is that 406 and satellite communicator.


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In the lower 48, has there been a time where discharging a firearm was necessary, in the context of aviation “periops”? It’s probably safe to say that even in ID/MT, the last thing you need if going down in the sticks is a firearm. If you survive the crash, your best bet is that 406 and satellite communicator.


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Better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it.
 
Better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it.

That’s exactly my point. It’s important to identify logical fallacy as to the context of preparation. When one thinks of being prepared for going down, a firearm is generally quite low on that “necessary” list. In AK and Canada, that equation likely changes. However down here, it’s not necessary. That is, unless your goal is to deter people. That opens a whole different bag of worms.


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I'm just saying that i've never heard anyone say that they wished that they'd left their firearm at home in the safe instead of carrying it. Whether it's for protection, or to provide food, it's pretty cheap insurance, really.
 
That’s a fair point. For most of us on this forum it really is a moot discussion as we are all approaching this from a recreational standpoint to begin with. I will say that coming to this conversation as somebody who has spent cumulative months in the sawtooth/Frank church wilderness areas during all seasons, I have neither needed a firearm nor have I felt the need to carry one in either area.


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Efer, point well taken. I feel very comfortable with my firearm, and while the chances of needing it is small, I personally feel comfortable having it along. While the advice my mountain flying mentor was given long ago, and times have certainly changed with regard to other aids to improve being found, I'm not willing to dismiss the advantage of a firearm and depend upon technology.

While this thread was initiated to discuss carrying a firearm in our aircraft, it is about survival and Tuck was a huge advocate of filing a flight plan with the local FSS (remember those?). We would stop into the GTF FSS, get a briefing and file a flight plan that detailed where we were going to go, when we were to return. While local FSS are a thing of the past (sadly), we can still file a flight plan. I would bet not many do.

Randy
 
In the lower 48, has there been a time where discharging a firearm was necessary, in the context of aviation “periops”? It’s probably safe to say that even in ID/MT, the last thing you need if going down in the sticks is a firearm. If you survive the crash, your best bet is that 406 and satellite communicator.

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Needing a firearm while flying doesn't have crashing as a prerequisite. There are several airstrips in western Montana where it isn't unusual to have a bear in the area or even on the airstrip. I've seen both grizzlies and black bears at places like Spotted Bear, Meadow Creek, Schaffer and a private strip I go to often. The Spotted Bear area seems to be a place where problem grizzly bears end up leaving the comforts of a trailer ride. Montana is seeing grizzly bears in places they haven't been in over 100 years. Their population is increasing well beyond their normal modern day range.

I would not airplane/tent camp at any of these airstrips without a firearm. Bear spray is fine - as long as you're very close to the bear. Closer than I'd be comfortable with.
 
Needing a firearm while flying doesn't have crashing as a prerequisite. There are several airstrips in western Montana where it isn't unusual to have a bear in the area or even on the airstrip. I've seen both grizzlies and black bears at places like Spotted Bear, Meadow Creek, Schaffer and a private strip I go to often. The Spotted Bear area seems to be a place where problem grizzly bears end up leaving the comforts of a trailer ride. Montana is seeing grizzly bears in places they haven't been in over 100 years. Their population is increasing well beyond their normal modern day range.

I would not airplane/tent camp at any of these airstrips without a firearm. Bear spray is fine - as long as you're very close to the bear. Closer than I'd be comfortable with.

Last year there was a Bicyclist sleeping in a tent in the post office parking lot of a small town there in Montana and a grizzly ripped her out of their tent and killed her and that was in the post office parking lot
 
I can understand you guys from Alaska and rural states being comfortable open carrying, but leaving it in your plane? Naw.

The locks on 99.99% of our planes being a complete joke - and I could (maybe) stomach having expensive avionics stolen or even a $1200 headset, but leaving my firearm in a plane unattended is, for me, orders of magnitude more concerning. So I rarely would carry one in the plane because it's more stress than it's worth in most of the lower 48. I do understand that equation changes based on location.

As an example - just this past summer at the High Sierra Fly-in about a dozen planes were broken into - and Bose Headsets were taken. Now if there was a .44 magnum in there to worry about, too?
 
Bears often approach from downwind if they want action. Spray is ok, but if shot into a breeze not as much. Bullets don't care.

Gary
 
I can understand you guys from Alaska and rural states being comfortable open carrying, but leaving it in your plane? Naw.

The locks on 99.99% of our planes being a complete joke - and I could (maybe) stomach having expensive avionics stolen or even a $1200 headset, but leaving my firearm in a plane unattended is, for me, orders of magnitude more concerning. So I rarely would carry one in the plane because it's more stress than it's worth in most of the lower 48. I do understand that equation changes based on location.

As an example - just this past summer at the High Sierra Fly-in about a dozen planes were broken into - and Bose Headsets were taken. Now if there was a .44 magnum in there to worry about, too?

Maybe if the little derelicts that broke into those planes had been confronted by the business end of that .44, the next guy would think twice before attempting to take what isn't his...
I'm not saying to leave it in an unattended plane at a fly-in. For me, much of purpose of a gun is to protect myself and my possessions. Thats hard to do if my gun is out of reach.
 
Brown bears are the caveat as to AK and Canada. Sad story about the cyclist. Certainly highlights the #1 rule to avoid bear incursions. Idaho/Montana brown bear populations are far lower than the regions further north. But it’s true, there is the potential to see a brown bear.


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Last year there was a Bicyclist sleeping in a tent in the post office parking lot of a small town there in Montana and a grizzly ripped her out of their tent and killed her and that was in the post office parking lot

Ovando, MT
Sad story - right in town.
 
The case of the lady killed in Ovando highlights some unfortunately very common problems in bear country. First, the lady who was killed and her party were preparing and consuming food in and around their tents. DO NOT store, prepare or consume food in the area where you're going to sleep.

Second, that bear had been in town recently, raiding chicken coops. Perhaps someone warned these campers of that, but frankly, this happens frequently. "Everybody" knows there's a bear around, till someone shows up who doesn't.

That was a tragedy. No doubt, but it never should have happened.

Like Spinner, I am not a big fan of pepper spray for bear deterrence. I much prefer guns. That said, I've carried guns for many years, and have been through some fairly extensive training with them.

When I worked in AK, ALL our crews were required to be armed with 12 gauge shotguns for bear protection. They were also trained with bear spray, we'd always prefer not to kill a bear unless it was necessary. Our policy required carrying a 12 gauge with slugs, a very powerful, and easy to use firearm. We always had folks that wanted to qualify with their .44 magnum. For a lot of years, I ran the qualification and certification our outfit required. I never had anyone fail to meet the basic standard with a 12 gauge (some of them took a good bit of training and practice), but I never had anyone qualify with a .44. Our qualification required shooting a moving target (charging, that is.). Message: Carry the firearm you practice with and are proficient with. I have a .40 which handles some pretty hot ammunition. I know I can shoot that thing, so it's what I'll carry.

And, please, if you're going to take a gun into the back country and tent camp, don't shoot your neighbor in his tent.....

That said, the thing that worked best by far was the use of lightweight electric fences around camp sites. In many years with three to four crews camping in bear country all summer, we never had a bear in camp, after we started using electric fences. Well, that's not totally true....there was the bull moose who ran through one camp, with a brown bear in hot pursuit. Moose took the fence with him as he passed through. Bear was in high gear going through camp. Woke us all up, but no harm, no foul.

Oh, yeah, you also have to keep the gate closed too.

And, for you over the hill types with overachiever prostates, be advised that when you get up at 2 AM to pee, make certain you know where that electric fence is....just sayin.

MTV
 
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Message: Carry the firearm you practice with and are proficient with. I have a .40 which handles some pretty hot ammunition. I know I can shoot that thing, so it's what I'll carry.

Mike’s got a great point. Small addition from my nobody self: shooting firearms is a perishable skill. Just like any other physical activity.

I might could have run for 5 miles straight two years ago, but if I haven’t done it in a while I shouldn’t count on still being able to.
 
Spent some time ground searching for a deer hunter who had injured himself in a fall. He would have spent at least one more night if he didn't have a .270 noise maker. Just one more reason.
 
I remember reading in the newspaper 15+ years ago about a Beaver that crashed in the Spotted Bear river following engine trouble. They had a rifle and were found by someone hearing the shots. My brother and I go on an annual fly fishing float down the South Fork with a guide/friend. The Spotted Bear flows into the S Fork here. He mentioned a couple of years ago that he was the guy that found them. He was fishing and heard the shots.

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I grabbed this single frame from a video my brother took of me testing Bear spray. Beyond this range of 10’ at best the spray disburses so much it can’t be seen. And there as a slight breeze at my back. A close range option only IMO. We’ve seen grizzlies right where I’m standing. We’re about 200 yards from the west boundary of Glacier Park.
 

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Like Randy, I too carry my 40Cal. when crossing the Rockies, both for protection and as a signaling device. Did this for over twenty years, 4 round trips each year. Thought of it as a tool, just like a hammer or screw driver. Part of my required equipment. Kept in on me during the flight. After landing (fuel stops) had a place to store it out of site and safe before departing the aircraft.

Bozeman-Missoula route to Seattle or Portland.
Casper-Salt Lake to Reno or San Francisco.
Southern route passing north of Albuquerque to Vegas and L.A.

Upon arrival at those hard Blue states, I'd separate my ammo and clips, leaving them with my tool bag at the airport and bring the empty handgun to the hotel room lock box.

Never questioned. I do have my expanded Conceal and Carry. Would never cross the rocks without it.

Michael
 
Brown bears are the caveat as to AK and Canada. Sad story about the cyclist. Certainly highlights the #1 rule to avoid bear incursions. Idaho/Montana brown bear populations are far lower than the regions further north. But it’s true, there is the potential to see a brown bear.


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I suggest you educate yourself about which bears attack more often. Black bears have a much higher percentage of attacks, brown bears have the higher percentage of deaths when attacked. Meaning you are in more danger of an attack by a black, but if a brown gets you it might be game over.

Knowing multiple folks with bear wounds, I prefer not being attacked.

That said, I am less worried about bears than other people.

As far as firearms left in a plane, give me a break folks, if you don't have a special place to tuck a firearm under an inspection panel, seat frame or interior plate, you should consider it. Lots of places to put one for the day that is safer than in a car trunk.
 
I suggest you educate yourself about which bears attack more often. Black bears have a much higher percentage of attacks, brown bears have the higher percentage of deaths when attacked. Meaning you are in more danger of an attack by a black, but if a brown gets you it might be game over..

Actually, black bear attacks are very rare. That said, when black bears do attack humans, the attacks are often predatory attacks. Brown bear attacks are far more common, but tend to be defensive, and often brief. The best response to a black bear attack is to fight back….hard. Just the opposite in a brown bear attack….cover your head and try to curl up.

Any bear attack is potentially very dangerous. And they are faster than you can believe in a charge.

MTV
 
I do appreciate you reinforcing my argument. As has been noted before often times the issue is an ill-secured camp. By and large, bears smell food (not people). Essentially, if you have to reach for a gun or spray it’s because you probably screwed up in the first place. Having said that, I doubt there’d be much argument if I said most people here would prefer a black bear wandering into camp than a brown bear.


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