C180/185 vs Helio Courier
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GeorgeMandes
Registered User
Homer, Alaska
Most of the problems with the wings coming off is related to pilot error.
Care to elaborate on this statement?
Care to elaborate on this statement?
Talkeetnaairtaxi
Registered User
Iliamna Alaska
Gorge
I know of 5 Helio's that had the wings come off. 2 were due to the pilot exceeding VNE. One had been ground looped and a very poor (illegal)wing repair made.
One Helio had old fabric on the ailerons, the rib stitching eventually let go and aileron flutter resulted. The last one was a corrosion issue. We are talking of 30-50 year old bush planes many had worked in third world countries and had ??? maintenance. Another problem is not many experienced Helio mechanics that really know the Helio.
Jerry Jacques
I know of 5 Helio's that had the wings come off. 2 were due to the pilot exceeding VNE. One had been ground looped and a very poor (illegal)wing repair made.
One Helio had old fabric on the ailerons, the rib stitching eventually let go and aileron flutter resulted. The last one was a corrosion issue. We are talking of 30-50 year old bush planes many had worked in third world countries and had ??? maintenance. Another problem is not many experienced Helio mechanics that really know the Helio.
Jerry Jacques
GeorgeMandes
Registered User
Homer, Alaska
When you think of the number of these aircraft, this sounds like a big number. By comparison, the strutted Cessna aircraft seem to do a great job of staying together. I did a search some time back, and found one Skywagon that parted out in a thunderstorm, and recently there was also a 206 that came apart outside the US in convective conditions.
Crash
GONE WEST
Nikiski Alaska
Here's the most recent crash due to wing failure.
http://www.adn.com/kenai/v-printer/story/531775.html
Greg
http://www.adn.com/kenai/v-printer/story/531775.html
Greg
Alaska_Rallyer
Registered User
He's not sure what to make of the NTSB's findings.
"I think they've done their very best," he said. "But to me, there are still questions."
TAT---
What do you think are the most neglected areas on the Helio that a Cessna mechanic would not find?
"I think they've done their very best," he said. "But to me, there are still questions."
TAT---
What do you think are the most neglected areas on the Helio that a Cessna mechanic would not find?
pzinck
Registered User
western,me
Do all the stol devices such as slats , interceptors and related parts put more stress on the attach points than a normal wing setup ? I wonder with the slats going in and out as well as the interceptors does that pose a different type of stress at critical points? The helio has always fascinated me.
Talkeetnaairtaxi
Registered User
Iliamna Alaska
I have seen first hand the top quality maintenance and attention to detail that goes into Chris's planes. First class all the way. Very sad that that happened to such wonderful people.
I was just flying by and couldnt help but notice the remarks..so here is my 2 cents worth...been flying helios since 1972...and yes Stan Stevens and Perry Linton whom i used to fly for in back in the 70's know a thing or two about helios..all of us are still flying them...and there is no point discussing comparing them to a 185....if you had any more than 25 hours on a 185 Perry wouldnt hire you..jumping into a helio after a 185 is like jumping into a helicopter after flying a fixed wing...anybody who wants to get instruction on a helio txt me id be happy to show you ....im in montana...and by the way i am looking for a helio 295.395 or 800 etc..to buy for a nonprofit group in nepal where i will fly and train non cessna pilots...thankyou...
Here's an old film from '54.
Pretty impressive.
It looks like you really couldn't get everything out of it taking off or landing on floats. Too much AOA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkiNYjOTT_s
Pretty impressive.
It looks like you really couldn't get everything out of it taking off or landing on floats. Too much AOA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkiNYjOTT_s
Bill Ingerson
Registered User
Snohomish Washington
Helio
I have seen Jason working on Helio's and his boss is a master at flying and repairing them. He told me he started flying solo in his dads Helio when he was 15 and he still own's this plane. He said they are the safest plane flying. Your sitting in a roll cage. He said the bench seat adds to the strength of the cabin. He said they have a four hundred pound tail weight. Also said the muffler under the belly helps cool the engine down and some people take them off, that's a mistake. I have seen him fly it many times and its amazing what they will do. He said the closest he came to being killed in one, was a Helli'o stallion, he said he would not fly another one. He also told me he was the first one to put a turbine engine in one. I saw a very nice one for sale at Lake Hood Alaska and a nice looking Super Cub sitting right behind it, both forsale and the Cub was $50,000. more money?
I have seen Jason working on Helio's and his boss is a master at flying and repairing them. He told me he started flying solo in his dads Helio when he was 15 and he still own's this plane. He said they are the safest plane flying. Your sitting in a roll cage. He said the bench seat adds to the strength of the cabin. He said they have a four hundred pound tail weight. Also said the muffler under the belly helps cool the engine down and some people take them off, that's a mistake. I have seen him fly it many times and its amazing what they will do. He said the closest he came to being killed in one, was a Helli'o stallion, he said he would not fly another one. He also told me he was the first one to put a turbine engine in one. I saw a very nice one for sale at Lake Hood Alaska and a nice looking Super Cub sitting right behind it, both forsale and the Cub was $50,000. more money?
I have been a Helio fan. Larry sent me a walk-around of a Helio he was tring to sell me along time ago and a factory video of Helio,s taking off in peoples back yard,s,going to pick someone up at IBM next to I-128 in Boston, and more impressive take offs and landings. I have allways wanted one.
Don't know if this is a worthwhile point, but I've ridden right seat in both a 180 and in a Helio 295 .
On separate occasions with the different planes, we ended up in bad locations where the plane had to either be tailed around by hand or had to be walked a ways across bad ground to get back to a good spot....bad piloting, poor rollout whatever.
...key difference was that if one ever has to supply manpower to assist a helio to move, it's going to be a tough row to hoe.
The C180/185...not so much of a problem.
On separate occasions with the different planes, we ended up in bad locations where the plane had to either be tailed around by hand or had to be walked a ways across bad ground to get back to a good spot....bad piloting, poor rollout whatever.
...key difference was that if one ever has to supply manpower to assist a helio to move, it's going to be a tough row to hoe.
The C180/185...not so much of a problem.
Bob Breeden
Registered User
Alaska
There is a very nice low time, and hangared Helio Courier available for sale by a fellow named Dave with a private strip just north of Missoula, MT.
Bob Breeden
www.AlaskaAirpark.com
Bob Breeden
www.AlaskaAirpark.com
Talkeetnaairtaxi
Registered User
Iliamna Alaska
The Helio is a better plane for extreme off airport use, it just cost 1/3 more to operate than a C-185.
Operating a Helio or for that matter a beaver on wheels you do need to think of how you will turn the plane around before you land. Never had a place that a C-185 could operate that I could not operate the Helio and carry bigger loads in and out with the Helio.
Every time I look at a short strip when flying my C-185 I wish I was flying a Helio. I often regret having sold my Helio and do miss it.
If I could only have one plane hands down it would be a light 1200 series H-295 Helio Courier with the 3800 lb gw kit. Add the large Zagale tail wheel and a set of 35" bush wheels and you have a fantastic Alaska bush plane. But a Pa18 will still go places that the Helio won't. Owning a PA18 and a C-185 is the perfect combination for my budget.
Jerry Jacques
Operating a Helio or for that matter a beaver on wheels you do need to think of how you will turn the plane around before you land. Never had a place that a C-185 could operate that I could not operate the Helio and carry bigger loads in and out with the Helio.
Every time I look at a short strip when flying my C-185 I wish I was flying a Helio. I often regret having sold my Helio and do miss it.
If I could only have one plane hands down it would be a light 1200 series H-295 Helio Courier with the 3800 lb gw kit. Add the large Zagale tail wheel and a set of 35" bush wheels and you have a fantastic Alaska bush plane. But a Pa18 will still go places that the Helio won't. Owning a PA18 and a C-185 is the perfect combination for my budget.
Jerry Jacques
I saw a Helio at Sun n Fun some years ago, the pilot was in a steep bank and by varying backpressure, he could make the all the slats pop out for just a moment. You could see slight variance in the timing of the slat sections deployment, as if the rollers needed some attention, or perhaps it was just the midday Florida turbulence working across the span.
I rode in a G0-480 powered example when the JARS recruiting show came to town, the pilot said the thing moves around alot on the gear as it loads and unloads. Until you get used to it, all the monkey motion will suprise you. With the public on board, the pilot was not about to do max T&L's, so the most interesting thing I saw was JARS's own seat frame design, with S-curves in the vertical tubing. The ability to walk away from hard landings is drastically increased.
As far as wings coming off, I once watched an A&P torqueing the carry-thru to the fuse top, he shouted down to his gofer twice to confirm the torque as it seemed about 3 times what it should be. He was really putting his back into it with a huge torque wrench. The bolts are not in shear, they are vertical so the threads are what keep the wing on. Why would you want any more torque than that necessary to avoid load reversal?
Don
I rode in a G0-480 powered example when the JARS recruiting show came to town, the pilot said the thing moves around alot on the gear as it loads and unloads. Until you get used to it, all the monkey motion will suprise you. With the public on board, the pilot was not about to do max T&L's, so the most interesting thing I saw was JARS's own seat frame design, with S-curves in the vertical tubing. The ability to walk away from hard landings is drastically increased.
As far as wings coming off, I once watched an A&P torqueing the carry-thru to the fuse top, he shouted down to his gofer twice to confirm the torque as it seemed about 3 times what it should be. He was really putting his back into it with a huge torque wrench. The bolts are not in shear, they are vertical so the threads are what keep the wing on. Why would you want any more torque than that necessary to avoid load reversal?
Don
then leading edge slats '''
the reason you saw the slats go in and out at different times is because the inside and outsides of the wing can be stalling at different times..or the airspeed of the wings is different from inside to outside of wings,, especially if your slipping a bit....there is a counter balance on each slat ..so it will pop out at exactly the right speed......and angle of attack...which is very handy when you flying at 30-35 knots in canyons tracking grizzly with radio collars on..lol
the reason you saw the slats go in and out at different times is because the inside and outsides of the wing can be stalling at different times..or the airspeed of the wings is different from inside to outside of wings,, especially if your slipping a bit....there is a counter balance on each slat ..so it will pop out at exactly the right speed......and angle of attack...which is very handy when you flying at 30-35 knots in canyons tracking grizzly with radio collars on..lol
pzinck
Registered User
western,me
http://www.jaars.org/whatwedo/aviationdstr59 said:
