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Building a Javron Cub

DW - Haha - I will have to make sure you are not draining my tanks when I'm not looking - LOL

When it was time for the first flight things were pretty quiet. No one was around, so I did the first flight without much (any) fanfare. No observers, no cameras, no chase planes etc. Just went out and flew it alone, but as I taxied in a couple of my neighbors came over to check on things and Bruce shot this little video on his phone after shutdown. Thanks Bruce!!

When I talk about "this prop" that is my borrowed (Thanks Tom) break in prop NOT the CATTO prop that will be on it after break-in.

Hope this motivates in some way.....

Steve wanted me to post this here. He is giving his secrets away. Ha.

Haha- that is great. I have used dinner plates, paint cans, many bowls, even a garbage can lid, whatever it takes to find the curve you are looking for. The only problem can be replicating it 3 months later on another stripe. Remembering what bowl you used and how you positioned it.

Steve - you better be careful - Cathy will kill you.

Tom - sounds like things are coming together for you. Hope to see you at JC in that "lightened" Cub.

I don't post on SC.org much, but I feel compelled to share with you how lucky I feel to have been involved with Bill's Javron Super Cub build. It really is a fantastic plane, with a ton of really useful little modifications that make it a more high-performance, comfortable, useful Super Cub for the way most people like to use them. And Bill's plane is a beautiful reflection of his personality and craftsmanship.

But this post is not about a great airplane kit, or even about one man's very nice version of it. It's about you, the SC.org community.

After Bill's accident several years ago, I saw him leap back into the process of starting over on a new project -- before his bruised face had even fully healed. It was an agonizing time. But one thing made it much easier.

You guys and gals have been nothing but supportive of Bill, and that has made a big difference. Building an airplane can be a rather solitary, even lonely, experience at times. But having a group of people to communicate with, bounce ideas off, and share the ups and downs of building an airplane with, is a catharsis and a great psychological support network. Thank you for helping my good friend get back in the air, in more ways than one. Y'all are one of the best groups of owners/pilots/builders on (or off) the web. I'm proud to know some of you, and hope to meet many more of you in the future.



(Yeah, I know, this is way too high for a Cub. I got a nosebleed up there, but it was all for science.)


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Thank you Buck. Folks , I am very Blessed to have the help and friendship of Buck, Jim, MMR, Cal, Tom and a host of others. The community is what makes this hobby/lifestyle so rewarding. Its all about the people.



This is how my last set of windows looked. .085 thick with the re-inforcement strip out of .016 AL.


Also, I took the forward fixed window brace out and made my forward side glass larger. This also aggravated the flex and bowing issue.


This was my little handle. I am going to put a 90 degree bend/flange on the new stiffeners and also make them out of .020 so that, and the thicker plexi, should take care of this "problem". Remember "Its just a series of PROBLEMS to be solved.


Jim, after flying. Looks pretty happy, in fact he is the high time flyer on this thing right now.


Here is a tip you can use and that will hopefully help. If you are like me you will want to hold the upper window channel in with nutplates. Three seems like it will work fine, after all there is really no stress on it, so three screws should be fine. One each a couple of inches in from the ends and one in the middle. WRONG. Don't be dumb like me and put a screw in the middle. You will not be able to get to it. The windows overlap in the middle and you can't get in there. Like this picture here. Doh.....


If you do three screws be sure to off set the center one enough to get to it with the window open. So there you go...... News you can use.

Hope this helps


A few misc notes about where we are......

Brakes - man I LOVE the Grove brakes. I could stand this thing on its nose anytime. They work great. Can hold it stationary at full power on run-up.
Shoulder Harness - The dual reel - no neck pinch - harnesses are awesome. Really nice. Definitely recommend.
Catto prop is as smooth as a turbine.

CHT's - after doing the box mod cyls #3 & 4 run within just a couple of degrees of each other. But they were still going over 400 and up to 425 if really pushed. We re-timed the mags, and then removed the manifold pressure input to the mags and now they are maxing out at about 385 I think. Still need to fly on a really hot day to verify, but I feel really good about this. I have dual P-mags. I did not change, or even check, the timing at first. I just figured that they were set for the test runs by Aerosport and were probably OK. And the engine started and ran great for the first 20 plus hours, just had to keep an eye on the CHT's. Then in the process of trying to get the CHT's down I spent time on the internet researching causes of high CHT's. One of the primary drivers of high CHT numbers is timing, so we checked and retimed the mags. On checking we found them to be timed about 2 degrees before TDC. Research indicated that with a low mass prop a better timing number would be about 2 degrees AFTER TDC. This would also help with cooling. The P-mags are timed different and it is SUPER EASY. Here is what I learned. They use what is called a "lost spark" system. They fire both Cyl 1&2 at the same time, and 3&4 at the same time. Thus when #1 is on the power stroke the plug fires, and at the same time so does #2, but number 2 is on the exhaust stroke so the spark has no affect. We first encountered this when connecting the wires to the mags. The instructions said to connect the 1 and 2 wires to the top row on the mags but did not say which wire went in which hole. Lots of head scratching and re-reading the instructions and trying to figure out EXACTLY which wire went in which hole. The answer is, it does not matter. They both fire at the same time. Same for 3&4. This was a new concept for me. I had never heard of a "lost spark" system before. It is fun to learn something new. So to time the mags you put the prop at TDC for the #1 cyl. Turn on power to the mags, and check for a green light. You blow into the manifold pressure line (MAP) (which would normally be a vacuum line) and this signals the mag that it needs to go to the calibration mode. The little light starts flashing. It is now in calibration mode. Then you blow into the line a second time and the mag says "Okay, I now know that the prop is at TDC. I'm done. Thank you". That is it. Your mag(s) are timed. Done. No connecting timing buzz boxes, no trying to get gear lash out, no loosening of mag screws and rotating mags, then rechecking, then redoing it, and trying again to get it right etc etc. You do not rotate the mags, prop or anything else. The whole process takes about three minutes when you learn it. It is the coolest thing since sliced bread.
Now the P-mags have 4 timing curves. 1) no manifold pressure input. Acts like a regular mag. Max advance 26 degrees.
2) the "A" curve. Max timing 34 degrees
3) the "B" curve. Max timing at 39 degrees
4) Create your own curve

We started, as recommended, on the "A" curve but this was part of the running hot. We dropped back to the no MAP input curve. We also told the mags that 2 degrees after TDC was TDC. ie we lied to the mags a little. This is recommended by the manufacturer for low mass props like the Catto to help insure the spark fires after TDC at start up. As soon as the engine starts running the spark advances from there to a more normal before TDC position. So now you know a little more about the P- mags and lost spark systems.


One quick photo, compliments of Buck.

More later, gotta run now.


Fantastic Bill! thanks for the info on the pmags. my cht's are a little higher then i would like aswell so i will go and re-time.Thanks for sharing! Marc
Dear Super Cub members,

Most of you have followed Bill Rusk's “Building a Javron Cub” thread. The last time I looked, it had 343,396 views and 1,696 replies. I think this will be a record that will stand for many years. Rightly so, because Bill has taken the time to share this build so others can benefit from his knowledge, wisdom and certainly some mistakes along the way. I can tell you that I have read every post since Bill started this build. Along with reading these posts and following this thread, I also have had the privilege to live this journey with Bill. Bill is a neighbor of mine at the airpark here in Poplar Grove and I have known him since 2001 when I became a home owner.

First thing I want to write here is my sincere thanks to Bill for allowing me to be a part of this project. It has been a wonderful experience. This man is a GREAT GUY. This probably goes without saying because many of you already know this. I was one of the lucky ones that Bill allowed to fly this airplane during the fly off to get the 40 hours. I am honored that someone that has put his heart and soul for 4+ years would just throw me the keys and say “fly it as much as you want.” I feel so blessed to have had this opportunity.

Many months ago, Bill set a goal of having the airplane done so he could make the Johnson Creek 2015 fly-in. At times it looked like it was not going to happen. Bill spent many very long hours these last couple of months to accomplish this goal. The goal was achieved. Since I was able to fly about 20 of the 40 hours needed, I can tell you first hand that this is an awesome Super Cub. I hope many of you get to see this airplane at Johnson Creek. I was also honored to be a part of his first Super Cub (a Smith Cub). It was also an extremely nice airplane, and one would think it would be hard to improve on that build. Well, I can tell you this Javron Cub he has built is many steps above the last. Very much improved. So well thought out. The result is an incredibly lightweight Super Cub that is a work of art and obviously an award winning airplane. I have met Jay DeRosier of Javron and would have to say he definitely has a WINNER with the kit that he is putting out there, and should be very proud of the product he has developed.

Over the past 4+ years I have learned so many things while watching this process and thank Bill for the time and effort he has taken for all of us to benefit. Clearly if he did not take the time to post, or weigh every stinkin' part on this airplane he could have finished this airplane in 24 months. We are so lucky to have been a witness to this.

I also want to share my experience with the Super Cub community. What a great organization. My closest friend of all time David Childs (flymore) and another great friend Greg Campbell (who is in the latter stages of finishing a Super Cub build), attended an event at Elizabethton, Tennessee in October 2010. This was my first introduction to the Super Cub community. Bill had just finished his Smith Cub in time for this event. I was invited by Bill, David Childs, and Greg Campbell to attend. Greg and I flew from Poplar Grove to Elizabethton in my 1955 Cessna 180. Bill saved me a spot next to his beautiful Smith Super Cub. We had great weather for the flight down. Taxiing in, as I made the turn in front of my saved parking spot, the tail spring broke and the tail of my airplane was sitting on the grass with no tailwheel attached. Since most that were attending the event were out flying, the only one around was Alaska Bushwheel Bill. I had never met Bill or knew of him. Bill knew immediately what had happened when he heard the tail spring break. He came over from his motor home and within minutes, Bushwheel Bill was assisting me with getting a tailspring and was a huge help in getting my airplane flyable for the trip home. Needless to say, I missed most of the event while dealing with this mechanical issue. However, I did get to meet many of you, and enjoyed great stories and food around the campfire.

Recently I purchased an American Legend Cub. I love this airplane almost as much as the Cessna 180 that has been in my family since 1963. I know it is not a Super Cub, but it is a Cub. Since Bill says I can fly his Javron Cub anytime, I can say I am truly blessed.

I am so proud of what Bill has accomplished with this Javron Cub he built that I wanted to share my thoughts and experience with all of you.

I know Bill will be able to enjoy this spectacular airplane for many years to come.

Thanks, Bill, for your friendship.

Jim Preiss
Bill, have you found or created a flight test program that will allow a person to create performance charts for a plane? I always wanted to create performance charts for my plane in order to have a better sense of where the edges of the envelope lay, but I never did find anything to guide me. Any thoughts?
Jim - Thank you for that very kind post. Well written and well said. This community is the BEST

Speedo - Kitplanes Magazine (I think) ran an excellent series of articles on that. Not sure how you would access the archives but I think that is the answer. I have not had time to do that yet, but like you, I would like to do so.

Johnson Creek 2015

Folks - this thread is far from over (sorry bout that). I still have much to share in the tweaking phase. But first a motivational post. This is my mission, at least the part on wheels, so thought you might like to see where you too may be going. Don't give up.......its worth it......


Hours flown off, paperwork all up to speed, time to go to Johnson Creek and fly the backcountry.


But the first stop was to fly up to Brainerd MN, and let Jay DeRosier of Javron Cubs fly the kit he built, and also give his employees rides. It was a great afternoon.


Next day (Wed) I headed West. Here is the view heading into the mountains East of Yellowstone National Park.


Selfie - One happy camper


At the encouragement of my good friend Mike W. I camped at the West Yellowstone airport. What a great place. Highly recommend this stop.
The campground is right behind the airplane. Pilots only, no one else can use this place. Hot showers. Etc.


They even have a cart to put all your camping gear in to walk it to the camp site.




Life is good.

I will post more when I get back from Lunch.


Keith - YES!!!


Looking out from the campground at Yellowstone.


Stopped in at Salmon Airport on the way into the Idaho Backcountry. Salmon is positioned like McCall except it is the last, closest fuel on the East side of the playground. Really neat little town and great, friendly airport. Self service fuel. If you are coming from the East this is a great last stop before heading in to the Backcountry. Here I am heading up the Middle Fork after the Salmon fuel stop.


First stop. Soldier Bar. Not all that challenging, just rough. Like landing on a staircase.


Cabin Creek. Seems like it was more overgrown with weeds this year. Still a neat place and would make a neat place to camp.


On final to Mile High. The runway is right along the left edge of the left reflection in the windshield.


Met these two on Mile High. There is a story here. They both fly/flew for Southwest Airlines. Now some of you guys like to poke fun of us airline pilots, (auto pilots and all that), but these guys have brass kahunas (like all SWA pilots) They flew to, and camped, their way across Alaska in FEBRUARY!! Anyone can fly to Alaska in June but it takes some kind of balls to do so in the middle of winter. AWESOME!!! John K and Steve P, you guys rock. John did a three part video on the trip. Very well done and edited. There is a thread here on SC.org somewhere. Well worth your time to watch. It is like a Super Cub movie. Really cool. Gents - I salute you.


My Cub at Mile High. With performance like that, even a dufus like me can do mile high.


On final to Vines. Neat place. Not too big of a deal, just short. Strip is in good shape this year.


Next up is Dewey Moore. All these strips are one right after the other so pretty easy to hit them all.


Another shot at Dewey Moore. No go arounds here......


And finally. My Cub at Johnson Creek. Mission accomplished!!


Saturday several of us did a little fly out. This is on final to Indian Creek. A pretty easy strip.

More to follow

Having seen Bill's new Cub at Johnson Creek I can say that it looks just as nice at 2 feet as it does in the pictures. Bill did a great job building this and all of the little details look great. Having been through this a couple of times I know the gotchas, like crooked tapes, where the paint likes to run, pulled wing ribs, etc.


My first look at Bill's Cub.


Steve Pierce and Bill looking at the engine.


Bugs and Bill after breakfast at the Root Ranch. A great place to stop for breakfast. We even had a bear lard blueberry pie for a breakfast dessert. It was good too :wink:


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Thanks Dan (Javron Flight #2)


After Indian Creek, Javron - Flight of 4, went on up the drainage and landed at Thomas Creek.


Dan, Christian and Doc at Thomas Creek


Then on up the drainage to Mahoney Creek. Sits up on a Bluff, here I am on final.


Finally, time for breakfast. Dan landing at Lower Loon with Christian on final.


After a good breakfast at Lower Loon, Javron flight flew the gorge to Upper Loon. This part, between Upper and Lower Loon is one of the best stretches (in my opinion) of the canyons. Just stunning scenery. Doc Randy, #4, at Upper Loon.


After Upper Loon it was time to go to Cascade for fuel. I decided to land in the grass beside the runway. My flight is now understanding the formation discipline thing so they all land right where lead did. Later, when we were fueled one of the locals came over and pointed out a culvert we had all just missed (thankfully my wingman truly did land right where lead did so we all missed it) and Dan #2 pops up and says "we followed lead right into the ground". Everyone got a big laugh out of that. Then back to JC for dinner and the Saturday evening gathering, and raffle.
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Sunday Morning, Christian, Dan and I headed North. First stop was Root Ranch for Breakfast. This place is listed as private in the Idaho Backcountry Guide but they were happy to see us and said all you need to do is call on the radio, (122.9 - they monitor it) or call on the phone and give them a heads up you are coming. When we called traffic going in on the radio the manager answered with a welcome call - "coffee is on and breakfast on the grill". This shot is from the porch looking up the strip.


After breakfast at Root Ranch Dan went NE, and Christian and I headed North towards Spokane. We stopped into a friends strip, Clear Creek, on the way. This is a private strip by invitation only so please don't just drop in. The owner has had to help trailer several airplanes out after they did not make it. Short, in a canyon, with power lines. It is a fun place. Here are Christians Cub and mine at Clear Creek.


The creek runs right along the strip. Shortly after we landed, this guy walked very nonchalantly across the creek.


Talk about a little slice of paradise. The strip, a creek and a log home, and a zip line. Living the dream.


After Clear Creek Christian led us to the Elk River strip where we walked into town, right next to the strip, and got some soft serve Huckleberry ice cream. That was great. Will do that again. Highly recommend.


After a night in Spokane (I had some work to do) I flew on up to Cavanaugh Bay to do a little camping. This is turning final to the strip. Fly over the lodge and the strip is cut in the trees. This is a REALLY neat place. Will do again (and again and again, I hope)


This is looking down the strip towards the lake and lodge. The camping area is on the left side out of view.


This is the lodge at the end of the strip at Cav Bay. They have a nice restaurant from 1200 - 2100 and also a gift shop where you can get ice, soft drinks, snacks, etc. It is a great option and only about 100 yards from the camping area. Close, but far enough away that you do not feel like you are in their parking lot.


Firewood is available, all you might want to do is split it down a little. Ax provided.


Nice camping area at Cav Bay. The blinding white light through the trees is my airplane, (sunlight was hitting it at just the right angle), LOL.


Looking straight off the end of the strip into Priest Lake, lodge out of view, on the left.


Turned 180 degrees and took this shot. Straight up the strip. This is just a magical place. Great restrooms, with hot showers, (even towels provided), a refrigerator, microwave, coffee, etc. This place is a MUST do camping spot. It is North of Sandpoint Idaho by about 15 or 20 miles. I had a couple of unexpected guests as well. Shopperly, from the site here, and his lovely daughter Halle, stayed a night enroute to their home in Canada. We had a great visit. Then the next night Eddie and Todd came in in their Huskys, and again I made a couple of new friends. What a great group of folks this Backcountry group of flyers is.


Finally, after a couple of days flying, my Cub is back in the hangar ready for the next adventure. It was inspected on the 26th and home on the 25th. So in less than one month we put 82 hours on it. Can't wait to get that fuel bill. Ouch!!

Hope this helps motivate.....

Bill (yes indeed - Very Blessed)
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Thanks Bill for all the pics, you had a great adventure with your new Cub, I enjoyed it.

Outstanding photo journal Bill! Really enjoyed the flying with you, Dan, and Randy. What a great community we have.

Amazing accomplishment and you have one honey of a Super Cub. Folks, Bill has shared the blueprint of what you need to build an awesome fully capable 180hp Cub. The bar has been set.

Thanks again Bill!

Christian (Javron Flight#3)
Outstanding photo journal Bill! Really enjoyed the flying with you, Dan, and Randy. What a great community we have.

Amazing accomplishment and you have one honey of a Super Cub. Folks, Bill has shared the blueprint of what you need to build an awesome fully capable 180hp Cub. The bar has been set.

Thanks again Bill!

Christian (Javron Flight#3)

And, it doesn't hurt to be a well-above-average pilot either. As apparently all of you are.
My nose kept getting closer to the screen, as I peered at a great picture show: beautiful country, interesting strips, real flying. Thank you.
It appears to me that some people are more blessed than others. Bill is an example, he not only is an excellent craftsman, but an excellent photographer and an excellent writer. I'm sure looking forward to meeting him. Great plane, great pictures and great stories. What a motivation to get your cub finished and in the air. Larry

Here are a few electrical notes that some may find useful....

These are actual amp draws, not advertised figures......

Turning the master switch on draws .37 amps. This is powering the fuel probes, Zetron Master relay, and the main bus.
The trim motor takes it from .37 to .7 amps under no load. If you try to stall the trim motor by holding the horizontal stab and activating the trim motor the amp draw goes to 1.1
Thus the trim motor takes from .33 to .73 amps depending on load.
I have the lighted rocker switches on a dimmer switch. When on this takes .2 amps
When the avionics switch is powering the GRT (with EIS), Garmin 796, Garmin GTR200 radio, and Trig Transponder (ie all my avionics) the total draw is 3.22 amps
The transponder draws .5 amps
The GTR200 radio takes .7 amps at rest ie in receive mode
When you transmit on the radio the draw jumps by 1.7 amps
The aveo flash nav lights (2 wing position and a tail position light) takes 1 amp
The strobe draw was difficult to measure as the draw spiked up and down so quickly with each pulse it was not really measurable (at least with our equipment and knowledge)

My total draw with lights, all avionics, and strobes is about 5 amps, when transmitting that could go to 6.7 and if trimming under load and talking at the same time the max momentary load would be 7.8 amps

With the B&C 8 amp alternator the amps produced varies with RPM very much like a generator Vs an alternator. Thus, at idle, it is only generating about 1.8 amps and it does not develop its rated 8 amps until about 2300 RPM. In normal cruise my amp load would be about 5 amps and the alternator is producing 8 amps. The battery charges nicely. Hence, on the ground with avionics, but lights off, I am at a .2 amp loss. Not a big deal unless I idle on the ground for several hours, or idle a while and talk on the radio a lot. So far it has not been a problem and I'm not worried about it. A bunch of short flights with engine shutdown between, thus lots of starts, and lots of time at less than cruise could be a problem. This might occur if giving a bunch of kids short rides. An issue I am willing to accept. Your preferences may vary.

Hope this helps

Bill, Have you taken into consideration the draw of the landing gear hydraulic pump when on floats? Those pumps have a considerable draw under load so with a small battery it is good to have alternator assist. Just a heads up when doing multiple circuits of the traffic pattern the battery will be drawn down. Even so when heading off cross country you will only have 3 amps to recover from gear retraction.
Thanks Keith and Pete. Yes, so far the electrical system is working great, but there are two things that would cause you to need more generating capacity. Electric hydraulics- ie float systems and also autopilots

If you have these in your plans I would probably recommend the 20 amp B&C unit.

For float hydraulics on experimental, I'd consider a hand pump. Those Parker pumps are compact, light, and work fine. Also, simpler.