skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
The P-mag manual specifically says that blast tubes must be installed, with instructions as to where to aim them. http://www.emagair.com/Manual LC114v20.pdf
Building a Javron Cub
- Thread starter Bill Rusk
- Start date
The P-mag manual specifically says that blast tubes must be installed, with instructions as to where to aim them. http://www.emagair.com/Manual LC114v20.pdf
Tango Cub
GONE WEST
Duluth MN
Hi Bill
I stoped in at Javron yesterday your fuselage is looking good 'almost done' I am curious to see what it weighs compared to a stock cub. Jay has quite a shop there i can see he is a perfectionist by looking at his shop and parts. A very nice guy. I picked up some parts for my cub I'm hoping to get my fuselage covered sometime this spring unlike your cub I'm adding weight all over it, third seat stc tail beef up, gross weight increase, large extended baggage. It will be a good work horse. Now if I can just loose all the weight I'm adding to my cub. Bryan
I stoped in at Javron yesterday your fuselage is looking good 'almost done' I am curious to see what it weighs compared to a stock cub. Jay has quite a shop there i can see he is a perfectionist by looking at his shop and parts. A very nice guy. I picked up some parts for my cub I'm hoping to get my fuselage covered sometime this spring unlike your cub I'm adding weight all over it, third seat stc tail beef up, gross weight increase, large extended baggage. It will be a good work horse. Now if I can just loose all the weight I'm adding to my cub. Bryan
Superchub
Registered User
Brighton, CO
Well.....Lord willing I am supposed to travel North on Jan the 18th and pick up all the weldments. Basically everything except the wings. It took a little longer than I hoped for but I am still very pleased with all my transactions with Jay and Javron. I know he has hired three welders since I ordered my kit as he is ramping up production. He had several kits in front of mine and he has at least 13 fuselages behind me. So get ready for lots of post and pictures.
Engine - After GREAT consideration and lost sleep I have decided to go with the 0-360 series. It will cost about 18 pounds on the nose not including the prop.
The deciding factor was a recently surfaced memory of my ill fated trip wherein I discovered the ABSOLUTE ceiling of my cub (loaded pretty heavy and on floats) was 10,200 feet on a cool day. Approaching Great Falls, Montana I could not go over the ridgeline but had to go South through the Rogers Pass then back North to Seeley Lake. I did not have the option to go over the mountains at 9500' because I was falling out of the sky at 10K. I think the 0-360 will help in that regard, and though I much prefer the look of the traditional round wingtip, the extended wing seems to really "work" at the higher altitudes and weights, thus I am rethinking my wing choice as well. This is, for me, a big part of the mission for the airplane....floats and mountain lakes. I will still be shooting for a empty weight of 1100 pds. Gonna be tough but if you can't handle the heat ........
Mark Rusche (MMR here) has been over lately working on his PA12 and last week we did a little more weighing.
On the Smithcub I used 1/16 2024 and contact cemented a heavy tweed fabric to it to do the interior. I really liked the look and "feel" of this but it did add some weight.
Here is a picture
1 Sq ft of 1/16 AL weighs 3.75 oz
plus cement weighs 4.72
plus fabric weighs 6.75 oz total
So 6.75 oz per square foot of interior panels. If we figure (roundly) that the baggage compartment is 2'X4' on the sides and 2'X2' on the back we get 20 square feet of area = 8.437 pounds in Fabric, or 5.3 pounds in .040 Kydex. So I can save 3 pounds in the baggage compartment area if I use Kydex. And even more if I use .028 Kydex. I like the look and feel of the fabric interior and will probably still use it in the cockpit area even at the expense of some weight. I know that no interior is the lightest and that works for some folks, (cool, go for it,) but for me I prefer a little more refined interior. But nonetheless I just found 3 pounds.
So that is where I am......waiting for the 18th.......like a kid waiting for Santa........
Thanks for asking
Bill
Bill have you considered FLOCK? Donjer products.
I love the look and Feels like fabric and I don't know the weight difference but It is very light...
It is what I used on the Chub.
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Many years ago, while I was working for Sikorsky, I saw a honey combed core floorboard which was being installed on the S-61. It was extremely rugged and light. The honey comb material seemed to be just aluminum foil which was bonded to a dimpled aluminum outer surface. I wonder if any of this material is available today? It would make good floorboards. I did see Igor walking through the plant once. He has been one of my idols ever since.
Bill Rusk
BENEFACTOR
Sandpoint, Idaho
Flocking. Hmmmmm Interesting. Here is a link to the website
http://www.donjer.com/
Same weight for the AL, probably the same for the glue, but it might be a little lighter than the fabric. Hard to say. Neat idea and I'll look into it more. Thanks.
Pete - I will be using a honeycomb floorboard material. Still trying to get that lined up. When I do I will post the info here. Used it last time and it saved about 10 pounds Vs plywood. Great stuff but there are probably 30 or 40 different varieties and finding the perfect type can be challenging. Once I nail it down I expect that Jay at Javron will be selling it and also offering precut floorboards as well. At least, that is the plan. I should have that squared away in a week or two. The type I used last time is no longer available.
Bill
http://www.donjer.com/
Same weight for the AL, probably the same for the glue, but it might be a little lighter than the fabric. Hard to say. Neat idea and I'll look into it more. Thanks.
Pete - I will be using a honeycomb floorboard material. Still trying to get that lined up. When I do I will post the info here. Used it last time and it saved about 10 pounds Vs plywood. Great stuff but there are probably 30 or 40 different varieties and finding the perfect type can be challenging. Once I nail it down I expect that Jay at Javron will be selling it and also offering precut floorboards as well. At least, that is the plan. I should have that squared away in a week or two. The type I used last time is no longer available.
Bill
pittsdriver
MEMBER
Bill, If you are going to use ECI cylinders make sure you have very tight baffles. I used a Van's RV7 baffle kit and have no problem with cyl head or oil temps even on a hot day with an AeroSport Power ECI O-320. The ECI cyls will run around 20* hotter than a Lycoming or Superior as a rule. Don
No. Boeing closed this down several years ago. They do all of their selling via online auctions now. You have to check perodically to see what they have. Could be anything from an old type writer to a metal building they no longer need.
MainlandCub
Registered User
New Zealand
Air Filter
Bill,
Have you toted up the difference in weight; strikes me the round type would be a bit heavier; more aluminium for the cowl, the dome, the stinger to support the filter.... and the filter?
Andrew.
Bill,
Have you toted up the difference in weight; strikes me the round type would be a bit heavier; more aluminium for the cowl, the dome, the stinger to support the filter.... and the filter?
Andrew.
jgerard
Registered User
Seattle, WA
A square filter is much lighter than the round and it's faster to remove the bottom cowl and I would run the paper type Donaldson air filter for the cleanest air with the least restriction
The inlet size on the air box is actually smaller on a round filter only about a 1.75 x 3.5 opening and the square filter has the entire 5x7 or so inlet. They both neck down to the same size plenum for the carb heat flapper. I think the round filter came about as a way to increase the filter area more than anything. I think the round filters started in 55' as an option with the 150hp Ag cubs.
When using an O-360 with the center sump mount carb things get a little different and the round is probably the best way to go. I think the PenYan type lower cowl and air filter is the better design. I couldn't find any pics in 3 min of google searching for the round filter air boxes.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/donaldAirFilter.php
Jason
The inlet size on the air box is actually smaller on a round filter only about a 1.75 x 3.5 opening and the square filter has the entire 5x7 or so inlet. They both neck down to the same size plenum for the carb heat flapper. I think the round filter came about as a way to increase the filter area more than anything. I think the round filters started in 55' as an option with the 150hp Ag cubs.
When using an O-360 with the center sump mount carb things get a little different and the round is probably the best way to go. I think the PenYan type lower cowl and air filter is the better design. I couldn't find any pics in 3 min of google searching for the round filter air boxes.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/donaldAirFilter.php
Jason
Attachments
MainlandCub
Registered User
New Zealand
The Donaldson filter for the Super Cub is the P10-7150, which is also the one for the Cessna 150. The Donaldson filter for the Cessna 172 is the P10-7172 (if I recall correctly) which is quite a bit bigger than the P10-7150. I have often thought about using this filter for an experimental to provide less restricted airflow.
I don't particularly like the look of the round filter on Cubs and as weight is a big topic on this thread was wondering how much heavier it was.
Andrew.
musket
FRIEND
Baja Oklahoma
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the reply re: the thrustline mount and the Ztron solenoid.
"Some of the experimental builders have incorporated his idea by building a motor mount which includes the new Thrustline angles. This is lighter and better but it cuts Mark out of receiving compensation for his idea. I can't speak for all the Supercub Kit companies but I know that Javron pays Mark a certain agreed upon amount for each motor mount that incorporates Mark's Thrustline modification."
I'll check out the JAVRON mount, as I like their policy towards Mark E.
The question arises (in my mind, anyway) as to whether it's best to go with a standard mount and the Thrustline kit, or a mount modified to incorporate the changed engine angle? If somehow the engine mount gets bent, I'd presume it's easier (and quicker), to get a standard mount rather than a modified one.
Any thoughts on that?
Thanks again,
Andy
Thanks for the reply re: the thrustline mount and the Ztron solenoid.
"Some of the experimental builders have incorporated his idea by building a motor mount which includes the new Thrustline angles. This is lighter and better but it cuts Mark out of receiving compensation for his idea. I can't speak for all the Supercub Kit companies but I know that Javron pays Mark a certain agreed upon amount for each motor mount that incorporates Mark's Thrustline modification."
I'll check out the JAVRON mount, as I like their policy towards Mark E.
The question arises (in my mind, anyway) as to whether it's best to go with a standard mount and the Thrustline kit, or a mount modified to incorporate the changed engine angle? If somehow the engine mount gets bent, I'd presume it's easier (and quicker), to get a standard mount rather than a modified one.
Any thoughts on that?
Thanks again,
Andy
Bill Rusk
BENEFACTOR
Sandpoint, Idaho
Andy
My general feeling is that if you have damaged the motor mount you have probably damaged the engine and prop. I don't think you will see a quick fix so you will have time to get a new mount built up. Javron mounts are built up in a jig and can be replicated exactly and quickly, as I am sure would be true from the major players like, Atlee, Airframes, Dakota, etc. It does save weight to have the thrustline mod built in. I do not know how much weight at this point. I may have a number in the future.
Don, Andrew, Jason and TJ - thanks for the inputs. Will research carb air boxes and filters more.
Hope this helps
Bill
My general feeling is that if you have damaged the motor mount you have probably damaged the engine and prop. I don't think you will see a quick fix so you will have time to get a new mount built up. Javron mounts are built up in a jig and can be replicated exactly and quickly, as I am sure would be true from the major players like, Atlee, Airframes, Dakota, etc. It does save weight to have the thrustline mod built in. I do not know how much weight at this point. I may have a number in the future.
Don, Andrew, Jason and TJ - thanks for the inputs. Will research carb air boxes and filters more.
Hope this helps
Bill
Cubus Maximus
Registered User
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
Good thing that thing is shrink wrapped. I think they are having some nasty wx in the chicago area. What an exciting feeling to be coming home with a new project. I bought some Javron parts recently, excellent quality and quick shipping.
Bill,
Congrats on getting a new start! I truly look forward to helping you get the new plane airworthy this year, and seeing you head north on your long-awaited Alaska adventure.
I'm sure you'll always rememeber today's long drive home, in the snow, with your fuselage strapped to your truck! Could you BE more dramatic? :lol:
Congrats on getting a new start! I truly look forward to helping you get the new plane airworthy this year, and seeing you head north on your long-awaited Alaska adventure.
I'm sure you'll always rememeber today's long drive home, in the snow, with your fuselage strapped to your truck! Could you BE more dramatic? :lol:
Greg Campbell
MEMBER
Oklahoma
Cub Smile
I need one of those for my truck. Another Rusk Built. Congrats Bill.
I need one of those for my truck. Another Rusk Built. Congrats Bill.
"What the heck?"
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Awesome Bill, I bet you had some funny looks.I wonder how many people knew what was on topof your truck. Can't wait to see it go together.
Bill Rusk
BENEFACTOR
Sandpoint, Idaho
Thanks folks for all the kind words. Made it home safely at about 2 am. I had to plow my driveway at that hour (I'm sure my neighbors loved that) just to get my truck out of the street. MMR and Jim came over today and helped me unload everything. We weighed EVERYTHING, as we checked it off the packing list. I am VERY VERY pleased with my Javron experience. Awesome craftsmanship and attention to detail. Brad (Cubus maximus) came by while we were loading up and took some great photos that I will share soon. Lots to share and I will just as soon as I have a moment. I am really fired up, and very pleased.
Bill
Bill
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