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Beringer ALG vs. Acme Aero for FX3

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this thread and I have a lot of random thoughts. Please don't take any of it as I am pointing a finger at any one person, I am just randomly throwing things out that come to mind.

First off I have noticed a lot of engineer types research things extensively. I was raised by one. My Dad never bought anything on impulse, be it a television or an airplane. The problems I see is getting good information. A good review at Consumer Reports doesn't always tell the whole story. That is one of the things I really admire about him. I can sometimes be impulsive and regret it later.

Second, stuff happens. About the time I think I am feeling pretty good about my abilities I get humbled. I had been doing the test flying on the Dakota Cub slotted winged Pacer and thought I had it dialed in pretty good. Had been putting it through it paces all morning and feeling pretty good about it. I took Cathy out for a familiarization flight to get her comfortable in it and on my first landing with her in the right seat just as we touched down the wing came up, I rolled in the aileron and then the nose went 90 degrees to the runway. I slammed in the power and realized very fast that we were way to slow and were going toward the ditch. I pulled out the power and got on the brakes and got it stopped. It was Saturday and several folks were at the airport and witnessed my off runway excursion and were quick on the scene. We got out and realized I had drug the wing tip and the elevator. That was a major humbling experience. I did it, no one else and I had to own it.

I have flown with a lot of people over the years and stuff happens for what ever reason. I always find it interesting the reaction and the individuals takeaway. That brings me to my third thought which is other peoples reaction. Everybody grabs a cell phone, takes a picture and posts it to social media. My first landing in my Thorp I had a bit of a crosswind, touched down nice and started rolling out and ran out of rudder. I did not have my feet positioned to get on the brakes and in the time it took me to get them I found the ditch perpendicular to the runway. To say I was pissed was an understatement. I got out, stormed over to my hangar and got my truck and trailer. When I got back to the airplane out airport manager was out there taking pictures with his phone. Having witnessed many of his incidents and not saving them for all of eternity I unloaded on him. Kinda like the X Cub that ground looped at Gainesville and got posted to the North Texas Aviators and Big Tire Pilots Facebook pages. I had worked on the airplane and the owner was 70 plus year old Citation pilot trying to master the tailwheel. There were 134 posts bashing him. My blood boiled and I posted that I hoped no one was around with a cell phone when they screwed the pooch. A few tried to justify their actions by saying they were learning from his mistakes but none could quote a constructive post. Luckily the moderator on both pages deleted the pictures and posts. I see a lot of that on Facebook, seems we get some sort of pleasure out of other's misery and maybe it makes us feel superior. It is a different story when something bad happens to you.

Anyway, I have figured out that everyone is different but I tend to gravitate more towards certain people but always find it interesting of others experiences to better understand them and what makes them tick. So much for my Saturday morning philosophical moment. Off to a memorial service to one of my greatest mentors.
 
Well, thought I was done beating this horse but guess not. My reaction to the passion Turbo exhibited was due to the fact he wasn’t passionate about how good the new gear was, but how bad the old gear was. It felt as if he had spent all this money on a set up he had been “sold” based on statistical data compiled by the people selling him the gear. (Did you know that 86.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot?). Then he felt obligated to educate everyone flying legacy gear, some who had been flying it successfully for decades, with this astounding info. Was he trying to convince us, or himself I wonder? Had the discussion been about a more forgiving off airport setup that would have been one thing. But the discussion was wrapped around airplanes ground looping on runways... And while he doesn’t need to justify his decision to anyone, he just kept trying to convince people that it was folly to operate legacy gear.

And cameras, YouTube pilots etc.., not a fan but that genies never going back in the bottle. I did some part time helicopter flying after I retired, mainly power line patrol. Everyone we flew near had a phone aimed at us.
 
Post 301; awesome post!
Yesterday, RANS Aircraft posted some pictures of their S-20 on legacy landing gear. Actually legacy gear, and, monster shock combo. Beginning to test this setup with hints it’s going to be available for the S-21 as well. Randy S. is a practical fellow, he goes with what works. Only draw back? A bit of a speed penalty. That’s it.
 
I guess Greg Simmons opted to replace the Beringer gear on the Rat Cub with a set of Acme's.

Friend caught this shot the other day, interesting.
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I guess Greg Simmons opted to replace the Beringer gear on the Rat Cub with a set of Acme's.

Friend caught this shot the other day, interesting.
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I wonder how long the tires will last when the Beringer gear is operated on pavement? It looks as though there will be a lot of side scuffing as well as a tendency to tuck under if the landing is not straight.
 
That must be the unloaded gear just before compression. If you want to increase stroke and keep your prop, what else can you do? I doubt it taxis around like that. Still, when approaching wing low to land on the upwind tire.....
 
After all the theory and back and forth I would like to hear the personal experience, the difference in ground looping the standard gear with Acmes and now the Beringer. Is the issue now the airplane or something else?
 
I think the difference is you are changing the length of the actual gear leg/shock. The Cessna gear splays out but does not retract in and I am not sure how the Helio works, I suspect it has dampening inside the fuselage like a Luscombe?

My point here is that we are being told our gear causes ground loops and that another gear is better in that regard although the person telling us this cannot relate his personal experience involving both types in a ground loop. I tend to learn more from people's honesty and personal experiences over being lectured and preached at but I have always been kinda bull headed that way.
 
So one guy on the internet makes a chucklehead statement and you’re invested? Move on. There’s nothing to see here.
 
Yea, I guess I am kinda a dick that way. I'll never be up for sainthood.
I must not have stated my thought correctly. I thought you resurrected the thread to give merit to the initial idea that Beringer gear could prevent accidents. For the Beringer price point I’d expect a transformative mod. Keller flaps, slats, 35” tires... those mods are what I’ll call transformative. My plane was set up for Porter style gear. Not transformative so I stayed with Cub gear. The same thought applies to Beringer gear. My thoughts on TK-1 shocks on Cub gear? Transformative. I’m sure Acme would be the same.

Why is your friend switching away from Beringer?
 
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Not my friend, he touted the safety advantage of the Beringer gear and I learn he ground looped it like he did the legacy with Acme's. I am seeking the same insight from him on what went wrong as he put into telling us how bad the legacy gear design is.
 
Not my friend, he touted the safety advantage of the Beringer gear and I learn he ground looped it like he did the legacy with Acme's. I am seeking the same insight from him on what went wrong as he put into telling us how bad the legacy gear design is.

Sounds like he forgot to tiptoe thru the tulips?

Glenn
 
Pardon my ignorance. As a newbie cub pilot, I has posted a few questions to the very knowledgeable collective here on the forum. SC is a great resource and have continued to learn a lot. Now in my second season of flying my EX-2 and enjoying it very much. I continue to push my self to learn new skills; stronger x winds, steeper rougher gravel strips, different approaches, etc.

But isn't this thread about learning to fly what you have (limitations of plane and pilot) as opposed to what's the safest or best landing gear? I mean without a DARPA analysis, isn't it just an opinion on the gear?
 
But isn't this thread about learning to fly what you have (limitations of plane and pilot) as opposed to what's the safest or best landing gear? I mean without a DARPA analysis, isn't it just an opinion on the gear?

None of the above. The landing gear "system" posts obviously become a religious cult on what's best otherwise known as confirmation bias (what I have is the best). This was a thread I started, go back and read the first post, based on information I was given and hence I came here and asked for more opinions from those with experience. I asked this question to help me make a decision on my new airplane, now being built. I like many wanted to do thorough research and learn, get past "confirmation bias" and be sure whatever I choose is what "I" want to have on my plane, stick with, learn, and build experience with. This thread is a pre-purchase question and nothing further.
 
Are you still training with Tac Aero? What do they say?

I completed the training early January. Was great training, highly recommend it. TacAero is a dealer for Acme...

I had already made my choice and received my TK1's. I'm sure EVERY option is a great option but you have to feel good with the option you choose. I feel good with my choice and I look forward to using these to build my experience on.
 
None of the above. The landing gear "system" posts obviously become a religious cult on what's best otherwise known as confirmation bias (what I have is the best). This was a thread I started, go back and read the first post, based on information I was given and hence I came here and asked for more opinions from those with experience. I asked this question to help me make a decision on my new airplane, now being built. I like many wanted to do thorough research and learn, get past "confirmation bias" and be sure whatever I choose is what "I" want to have on my plane, stick with, learn, and build experience with. This thread is a pre-purchase question and nothing further.
And I believe you got that. Most people have experience with the legacy type gear and an assortment of shock struts. As I have seen in the real world and at STOL contests my observations are they all work and work well. None cause groundloops no matter what the Beringer guy says and I assume found out when he groundlooped them. I would say TK1s and Acme's are at the top of the list for off airport. There have been a lot of blame put on failures with lots of emotion involved but there was also a lot of ego involved and in my opinion some failed because the operator wanted them to. I am sure you will be happy with the TK1s. My only issue with them is the experience I posted of one leaking and the owner being dead in the water until he got a nitrogen bottle. That is an issue Acme does not have. Some people like the more streamline look of the Acme over the kinda Jeep look of the TK1. I will go Acme because of reasons stated and they will be approved on my certified Super Cub. I was fine with my bungees, said holy smokes when I installed the AOSS and will probably say the same thing when I install the Acme's having flown them on other's airplanes. You have found the Cub Mecca, we are opinionated yes, but I think you have to admit diverse and knowledgeable as well. If you want to learn something about Cubs it is here or you can find out here.
 
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