Backcountry PA-12 (or PA-18) Recommended Mods

[skywagon8a]

Nice looking 12. How much does it weigh on wheels? I hate to sound stupid but who is "javelin" and TCOW?

TCOW formerly Smith now Backcountry. http://supercub.com/

"javelin" (sp) = Javron http://javroninc.com/ Makes Cub kits. (The current favorite.)
See Bill Rusk's log. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?40889-Building-a-Javron-Cub&highlight=javron

Javron made all the steel stuff for TCOW after they bought out Smith and before they again changed their name and brought everything under one roof.


Welcome aboard Gary.

 

[PerryB]

Beautiful Cub

Thank you. You should post some more pictures of your project.

 

[hotrod180]

.....For me a 12 is a better fit. ....I have a sliding front seat....

A buddy of mine is building up a 12-- he's very tall & the standard front seat arrangement isn't gonna work out for him, so he wants to do an adjustable front seat. I saw an experimental 12 with a C150 front seat mounted on Cessna rails and got a couple pics of it for him, he thinks that looks like a pretty good way to go. He knows a guy with a 150 seat he'll sell, and can buy some new McFarlane rails. Unfortunately the pics don't show very well what was fabricated to bolt into the airplane to mount the rails onto. His plane is a certificated PA12 so he has to meet some parameters as far as how the seat mounts to the airframe to allow for an easy approval. I'd appreciate it if someone here with an adjustable seat in their 12 could post some photos of their "infrastructure". And maybe somewhere farther down the line provide a copy of their approval paperwork. Thanks.

 

[pa12drvr]

"I have lots of 12 time and maybe 15-20hrs in an 18. I think the 12 is easier to get in and out of.."

That's my experience as well. Before the rebuild I had the battery between my feet...post rebuild, the battery is under the seat. For whatever reason, that made a world of difference getting in. With an -18, I have to follow a sequence (butt on sill, rotate to the left, lift left leg, lift butt, etc). Much easier in the -12.

As noted above, the holy grail of -12's is: Buy it the way you want it. DO NOT buy and then modify. Unless you have more money than sense. Like someone on this forum

 

[BES]

As noted above, the holy grail of -12's is: Buy it the way you want it. DO NOT buy and then modify. Unless you have more money than sense. Like someone on this forum

That would be my experience as well. Here are a few photos os my -12. It is experimental which allows me to do my own maintenance. Not insignificant when you consider that a mechanic charges approx. $120 pr. hour to work a ball point pen...
Everything is new in this aircraft: Fuselage, gear, wings, engine (O-320 with low-compression pistons, to allow car gas).
It weighs 1,192# dry and performs like crazy. Takes off short, cruises at 85 knots @ 2200 RPM and 8 gallons per hour. If you want it, it can be bought.

 

[cub12]

will do Perry. i to would like some info on mounting the cessna rails in a cub if some one has any info and pic's. is it just a matter of adding some plates to the bottom of the floor board to act as a doubler and bolt on the rails?

 

[logjam]

hotrod180, cub12, If no one else comes up with the Cessna seat rail info I'll try and dig it up for you when I get a chance. The work was done 20 years ago and I have CRS syndrome. The pics I could take quickly won't answer the questions of what's under the floor boards, and I don't have time to take things apart to refresh my memory.
My IA has my paperwork and we're both running in different directions these days...Typical Alaska fishing season going into hunting season, it's hard to get anything done.

A couple of other things I'm glad I have: PA-18 third seat, A Dodge spar tie downs(those can save your bacon if you're tied down in a blow), VG's, and ABW 31's.

 

[hotrod180]

Anything will help, I'd appreciate it.

 

[JimC]

Would it be easier to use Piper PA28 rails?
I like the fully articulating 28 seats.

I have a 12, a 3, and an 11, and I find it far easier to enter the 3 and 11.

 

[skywagon8a]

hotrod180, While I have not seen a sliding seat in a -12, my question would be "how am I going to fit a 150 seat with rails around the bungee truss on the -12?" Has your friend removed the truss and installed an -18 gear? Otherwise there would need to be some supporting structure at the height above the floor equal to the top of the truss. Then again a 150 seat sits on the floor so a 172 seat might be a better choice. Seems to me an -18 style slider would be easier to install.

 

[hotrod180]

I don't think he's dead set on a 150 seat, it just seems like the easiest way to do it. Don't recall which gear he has, but the tubing structure that comes up off the floor by several inches at the front of the seat is still in place. I think this precludes using the adjustable seat as in the 18, plus I think he needs more adjustment. I had suggested a 172 seat, with the rails mounted on the floorboards, but he needs to mount the rails at the height of the existing tubing structure-- hence, the need for the much-lower 150 seat.
Here's 150 seat rails mounted in an exp 12, my buddy's will probably be very similar.

 

[skywagon8a]

hotrod180,
Just something to think about while viewing your picture. Before making any parts as shown for a certified -12, make sure that the field approval is already signed on the 337 by the appropriate person. I have doubts that seat structure would survive and protect a pilot safely. Those seat belt anchors would likely pull out in a severe crash. They ought to be tied to the primary fuselage tubing under the floor.

 

[hotrod180]

That structure the seat rails attach to look pretty good to me, but I agree the seat belts should be attached to the fuselage tubing.
Looked at my buddy's airplane last night-- turns out he has PA-18 gear, but what I guess is the "bungee truss" is still in place. The flap handle mounts on it. If it was gone, a set of rails on the floor along with a 170/180 series seat would work, but since it's still in place the much-lower-profile 150 seat mounted high (as per my photo) is a better show.

 

[skywagon8a]

I was only thinking of the FAA's current seat regulations. Without looking them up I do know that they are very strict. And no, they do not apply to a -12.

Years ago I installed a set of floats on a -12 which belonged to a retired Piper test pilot. It had a Comanche seat in it. No, I do not recall how it was installed. It was comfortable though.

 

[cub12]

i was thinking more like the cessna and putting the rails on the floor with a cessna seat so it could slide all the way back or fwd. a big plus would also be when you remove it working under the dash would be alot easier. My 12 has the 18 gear and seat frame which does slide but not enough to make getting in easier. a mod for the flap handle would be needed along with beefing up the floor boards.

 

[hotrod180]

A mod, which leads to another mod, which leads to another mod.....I think that's what my buddy is trying to avoid-- he just wants to go the simplest route to have an adjustable seat. The 150 seat seems like the way to do it.