Autopilot STC

[Farmboy]

I assume it would all start with attempting to get a field approval. Lots of field approvals out there but maybe not on an autopilot. I’d want to do a dive into some history to see if someone, somewhere at some point got one. I’d expect a DER would need to approve everything - materials, bracket design, locations, forces, etc.. Would be interesting to ask one.

What the FAA rep cares about is covering his ass. If someone else’s name is on the line already it’s much easier.

 

[Farmboy]

So continuing this thought process, I looked on the AML.
The Husky A-1 series is approved but the Cubcrafters is not. Must be Aviat had some pull with Garmin.
I don’t know how the Husky servos are installed, but the Carbon Cub installs are under the pilot seat, essentially on CG, with the roll servo using linkage to the torque tube, and the pitch serco using a bridle cable on the up elevator cable.

If someone had some time, some finances, a willing FSDO and a DER, one could probably start with these two aircraft as examples and get a system approved.

The fine line may be getting a Field Approval without opening the door to have them demand an STC cert process.

And I may be speaking out of turn. For all I know maybe they simply don’t accept any requests for field approvals regarding flight controls? I’m sure Steve Pierce or others on here have experience in that process.

Edit : 8GCBC is also on the AML

 

[skywagon8a]

And I may be speaking out of turn. For all I know maybe they simply don’t accept any requests for field approvals regarding flight controls?

There is a list of what can be field approved and what requires an STC. I just don't remember where it is. I have a feeling an STC is required for an autopilot.

 

[skywagon8a]

There is a list of what can be field approved and what requires an STC. I just don't remember where it is. I have a feeling an STC is required for an autopilot.

So continuing this thought process, I looked on the AML.
The Husky A-1 series is approved but the Cubcrafters is not. Must be Aviat had some pull with Garmin.
I don’t know how the Husky servos are installed, but the Carbon Cub installs are under the pilot seat, essentially on CG, with the roll servo using linkage to the torque tube, and the pitch serco using a bridle cable on the up elevator cable.

If someone had some time, some finances, a willing FSDO and a DER, one could probably start with these two aircraft as examples and get a system approved.

The fine line may be getting a Field Approval without opening the door to have them demand an STC cert process.

And I may be speaking out of turn. For all I know maybe they simply don’t accept any requests for field approvals regarding flight controls? I’m sure Steve Pierce or others on here have experience in that process.

This is the section of the FAA inspector's bible which used to apply. It has been superseded by something else but would be the place to start. https://drs.faa.gov/browse/ORDER_8300.10/doctypeDetails?modalOpened=true Page 2-9 Autopilots require an STC.

 

[dgapilot]

There is a list of what can be field approved and what requires an STC. I just don't remember where it is. I have a feeling an STC is required for an autopilot.

Here you go
“blob:https://drs.faa.gov/fb59480a-1b23-47d7-a9f9-3cfb6ed8f805”
Cut and past everything including the “blob” into your browser

 

[skywagon8a]

Resurrecting this thread to ask a question: Has anything changed since 2005? Does anyone know if there is (or will be) any effort to STC an autopilot for the PA-18?

SA02594SE https://drs.faa.gov/browse/STC/doctypeDetails?modalOpened=true

https://www.dynoncertified.com/pdfs/103545-000_Rev_E_AML_SA02594SE.pdf

Dynon Certified | Affordable Avionics For Certified Aircraft

Dynon panels feature SkyView HDX, Dynon’s flagship integrated avionics platform that replaces your legacy equipment with a modern, affordable system.

www.dynoncertified.com

 

[KeithO]

SA02594SE https://drs.faa.gov/browse/STC/doctypeDetails?modalOp POened=true

https://www.dynoncertified.com/pdfs/103545-000_Rev_E_AML_SA02594SE.pdf

Dynon Certified | Affordable Avionics For Certified Aircraft

Dynon panels feature SkyView HDX, Dynon’s flagship integrated avionics platform that replaces your legacy equipment with a modern, affordable system.

www.dynoncertified.com

The PA18-150 line in the AML has a note that the autopilot installation is not approved.

 

[Farmboy]

In that entire Dynon list the only autopilot installation approved is for the 172 (F or later), the V series Bonanza, (and the PA-34, which I find hard to believe).

 

[KeithO]

I imagine Garmin adds to the list of supported aircraft for their autopilot based on demand. Assuming that, what would be the likely number of certified PA-18 owners that would want a Garmin autopilot? I know the number is at least one.

 

[drew.taylor]

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/forms/autopilotinterest/

This is the link I received from Garmin. They mentioned that there were no plans for a PA-18 autopilot but if there is enough interest they would do a program. I have filled out this form and hopefully others will too.

 

[KeithO]

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/forms/autopilotinterest/

This is the link I received from Garmin. They mentioned that there were no plans for a PA-18 autopilot but if there is enough interest they would do a program. I have filled out this form and hopefully others will too.

I filled that form out too. I also called Vera Liebert at CubcCrafters last week. She said she would ask around to see see if CubCrafters knows of any activity around regarding a STC or has plans for one.

 

[drew.taylor]

I filled that form out too. I also called Vera Liebert at CubcCrafters last week. She said she would ask around to see see if CubCrafters knows of any activity around regarding a STC or has plans for one.

That’s great. I emailed Lee Moore at Garmin and he was nice enough to email back. I also spoke to Brad Damm at cub crafters where I just bought my super cub and I know he has talked to Garmin but didn’t have anything positive at this point. Hopefully more will use the request form and we can at least have the option for those of us who would like an autopilot option.

 

[Farmboy]

If each SuperCub.org member took a minute and filled out the Garmin form linked above, we would get on the list.

 

[drew.taylor]

Hopefully even if Cub owners aren’t sure if an autopilot is right for them, we can all help each other out. I’ve emailed Garmin again to see if they can give any more details on how much interest they have received.

 

[Farmboy]

Drew if you look back at post 22, that information is direct from the guy heading up autopilot approvals at Garmin.
My reference to “count on two hands” meant less than 10 requests.

 

[drew.taylor]

Thanks. I wonder how many indications of interest that they need to start their process and do a program. Hopefully there are more owners who are interested in an autopilot and will send requests.

 

[KeithO]

Thanks. I wonder how many indications of interest that they need to start their process and do a program. Hopefully there are more owners who are interested in an autopilot and will send requests.

Can this site do polls? What would be the estimated market size by number of certified PA-18 aircraft?

 

[drew.taylor]

It looks like this site does have polls but I’m not smart enough to figure out how to do one. Maybe someone can help. Would be interesting to see who has sent in a request etc.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Start a thread and click the poll option. Not sure if you have to be paid member or not.

 

[drew.taylor]

Thank you. I must need to step up a level.

 

[KeithO]

Just posted the poll here

 

[drew.taylor]

It seems like with over 10,000 super cubs produced and many of them flying daily in some challenging environments that Garmin would prioritize a STC. I wonder why it should simply be a $ decision and that pilot safety shouldn’t be a factor. Hope they come around.

 

[skywagon8a]

It seems like with over 10,000 super cubs produced and many of them flying daily in some challenging environments that Garmin would prioritize a STC. I wonder why it should simply be a $ decision and that pilot safety shouldn’t be a factor. Hope they come around.

It's always a $ decision.

 

[Farmboy]

It’s not about what’s flying. It’s about market demand.
They would prioritise it if even a small percentage of those flying asked for one.

 

[KeithO]

It’s not about what’s flying. It’s about market demand.
They would prioritise it if even a small percentage of those flying asked for one.

How many folks do you think would have to express interest for Garmin to prioritize a STC?

 

[Farmboy]

I’d have to ask without guessing. But as mentioned, enough requests would move it from the “consideration” list to the “todo” list, which will then take a couple years to make it to “next on the list” to complete.
So yes we need to request it now to ensure it happens when possible.

I think a more consistent/repetitive request (monthly?) may help, but it one sense we are competing against aircraft whose owners and pilots are more apt to complain/request/desire an autopilot. In a very stereotypical perspective, those of us flying cubs probably lean more towards the dairy farmer in me. “Works fine, just fly it” or “it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Largely thanks to the vision of Jim Richmond, more and more pilots from outside of that realm are getting into cubs, but perhaps still not enough yet to move the STC off the consideration list.

I’m perhaps an oddity, as I’m installing a 3 axis in my build. (For the price of a third servo why not, right?)
Pb