Alaska Gear Company Brake Master Cylinders

[Steve Pierce]

I went down a rabbit hole this morning after watching the video posted below from Alaska Gear Company and would like to here from someone who has used these. Sean says in his video that they are lighter, make more pressure and are cheaper. I have Dakota Cub master cylinders on my Super Cub and have installed a lot of Steve's Vented Brake Boosters.

I like Dakota's because everything is new and I install these on rebuilds because I have access to under the floor. If you buy Dakota's kit for $1638.48 you get inspection plates, grommets and adjustable brake rods which helps gain access to the master cylinders and gets rid of those non adjustable welding rods to inner connect the front and rear brake pedals. I really like the adjustability of the DC brake rods and the high capacity brake reservoir, check the indicator in the fill hole at annual and go. $1470.48 for just the two master cylinders.

I like Steve's to replace those pesky non-vented master cylinders that I can bleed in the morning and can't push the airplane out in the afternoon warmth. They fit on the factory Scott frame and it is a pretty easy upgrade especially when using NAS1352-08-8P Allen head screws to install them. Nice big reservoir that I only have to look at at annual. $890 for the pair of master cylinders ready to bolt on your Scott frames.

Alaska Gear Company is using a 13/16" piston diameter and they say you get more pressure and a progressive feel. I know Dakota Cub uses a 1" piston and I believe Steve's is 1" as well. Not sure how you get the more progressive feel, the stroke is the same, limited by pedal travel, I can understand more braking pressure but I have not had an issue with enough pressure even when I was on 35s but I hear some folks do. Will be interested to hear PIREPs on these new brakes and how the feel and perform differently than what is out there.

Dakota Cub Master cylinder with extended reservoir 1.5 lbs each.

Steve's brakes with Scott frame and pedal 1.8 lbs each.


Alaska Gear Company posts 1.08 lbs each for their new brake master cylinder.

Dakota Cub $1470.48 pair or #1638.48 for the kit
Alaska Gear Company $1375 a pair
Steve's Brakes $890 a pair

High-Pressure Brake Master Cylinder

The High-Pressure Brake Master Cylinder features a 13/16” diameter piston, providing superior hydraulic pressure with minimal foot pedal effort. This smaller piston diameter generates higher pressure, resulting in a more controlled and progressive brake feel, enhancing pilot control and safety...

alaskagearcompany.com

Steve's Aircraft Vented Booster Brake

General Aviation Maintenance Specializing in single engine fixed gear. Owner assisted annuals. STC Developments Fabric Specialist

www.stevesaircraft.com

Extended High-Pressure Brake Master Cylinder Assembly

Extended high-pressure brake master cylinder assembly; for aircraft with 26" and larger tires; Note: J3 s/n 10339 and higher unless previously approved with Scott system. Sold as a pair. Please call or email if you're needing only one.

dakotacub.com

 

[gahi]

I wonder how much the travel range is affected by the smaller bore? I'm sure we could math it out, but I like mine do come on right away. Dakota's here too.

 

[skywagon8a]

Steve, the only reason I see for changing the piston diameter to 13/16" would be because perhaps they haven't been getting as much braking force when using 35" tires. The larger the diameter of the tire, the more braking power is necessary. I've been told of several planes being put on their noses when using the 1" pistons with 26" tires.

Here is a simple modification adding a reservoir and inexpensive parking brake valve to the North River boosters. Opening and closing the needle valve eliminates "pesky non-vented master cylinders that I can bleed in the morning and can't push the airplane out in the afternoon warmth."

 

[68Papa]

Steve - I do not think you find anything better than Dakota Red Tops. I've never used Steve's but have used everything else and I find no comparison. I like really stiff brakes and the Dakota's have always been heads and tails above everything I've used. My new Cub had Matco's and were plumbed wrong - they were a mess! I got talked into replacing them with the Grove Masters, as they seem to be the hot new rage in Alaska for experimental. Massive disappointment! First chance I get, they are going in the trash and I'm going back to Red Tops. Easy decision.

 

[KevinJ]

I’ve yet to try the Beringers with the double set of calipers per wheel. Seen them on a few experimental cubs. I know that guys say they can lock up 35s on solid ground with some of the boosters but I’ve never been able to. I’ll wait for the comments on why you don’t want that much brake but I’ve always wanted more

 

[sj]

I’ll wait for the comments on why you don’t want that much brake but I’ve always wanted more

I do not enjoy cubs with weak brakes!

sj

 

[68Papa]

I can't stand weak brakes either! I'm always hearing about putting a cub on it's back, and that is certainly possible with over braking, but I've always found it easier to back off my foot pressure rather than forcing my heels through the firewall in an attempt to get stopped!

 

[sj]

I’ve flown with a lot of people who treat aircraft brakes more like on / off switches rather than the variable tool they are.

sj

 

[sixmile]

can Dakota cob brakes be preloaded for the short stuff?

 

[cubdriver2]

I do not enjoy cubs with weak brakes!

sj

But it keeps you tuned up for ski season all year

Glenn

 

[Steve Pierce]

can Dakota cob brakes be preloaded for the short stuff?

I have done that with Piper diaphragms but have not seen a reason with the Dakota brakes.

 

[Steve Pierce]

Doug Keller from Alaska Gear Company called me today. I guess there was some concern with my intentions with this thread. So the stroke is a tad longer with the smaller bore which you would need to move the same amount of fluid. The idea was to have more feel, less on /off and less force. The master cylinder is lighter by 1.44 lbs or more depending on your choice. The reservoir is smaller but Doug said he has not had to add any fluid and the reservoir is right over the inlet. My experience with fluid usage has been temps and pad wear. As long as it has enough fluid to make it between annual inspections I am happy. I know the extended reservoir on the DC master cylinder was to prevent unporting of the pickup when on big tires. Maybe when someone installs a set they can do a comparison and let us know what difference if any they found between any of the available options.

 

[DENNY]

I have stock brakes with North River boosters and 1/1/4 double puck brakes. I use grove pads because Steve says they are good. I can lock up a 35 inch Bushwheel without any problems. I top them off before any big trips/events or 25 hours whatever comes first. They are definitely a item that needs routine attention especially if you want good performance. When braking hard I modulate pressure Left to Right this helps prevent unwanted prop pitch changes. Having learned in a Pacer normal braking is done more with short taps for slowing and directional control when needed. Not sure how much a more progressive application is going to help the Hiking/Bunny Boot pilots. But younger reflex intact pilots in light shoes might benefit, especially with tail high operations.
DENNY

 

[KevinJ]

Lock them up on run up or on landing Denny?

 

[CubCruiser]

I’ve flown with a lot of people who treat aircraft brakes more like on / off switches rather than the variable tool they are.

sj

Yet, they don’t drive their vehicle that way (usually). New tailwheel students like to stab the brakes. My advice to them: “I shouldn’t know when you’re applying the brakes.” STOL training excepted.

 

[Steve's Aircraft (Brian)]

Our cylinder is also a 1 inch piston.

When we designed them we wanted an easy retrofit that would require little modifications and less cost. We went with the 1 inch piston design because that was what all the other non vented “booster brakes” were using at the time.

I have a design on my computer to retrofit our current cylinders with a sleeve system that would make the operating bore size down to 9/16 inch. This would greatly increase the operating pressure. I have yet to turn out a prototype to test it though.

Several years ago I had an Alaska operator return our brakes because he could not “pre load” them to drag the brakes to land in 250 foot spots. Funny thing is Stoddards air parts told me that guy buys lots of props too.

—Brian

 

[KevinJ]

I’ve never figured out the “pre load” deal. I land with a little bit of brake most of the time and if at a stol deal, they’re locked. My feet pre load them.
Brian, I think that narrower bore would be a great option for those running 35s.

 

[DENNY]

Lock them up on run up or on landing Denny?

I can skid them on landing, It gets your attention with that tail gets light fast. That is why I walk them locking Right to Left and back or I would be on my nose. A few things that likely effect my results are that I rebuilt everything top to bottom and have SS lines from the masters to the calipers (get rid of the old rubber lines between the master and belly). New rotors and Grove pads. The other thing is I keep my tail lower with the 35 in tires which results in more lift in the wings, thus less weight/traction for the tires. I tried picking my tail up higher when landing like with 31 in tires but I could feel it want to keep going and it happened fast. I don't have the 18 year old reflexes so tend to avoid the edge when it comes to trying to brake both tires hard. I scrubbed off a good patch of rubber on my 31's a few years back when trying to do a high speed STOL drag contest landing on tar. After that I stuck to standard STOL. When I top my fluid off there is very little play in the pedal and response is fast. If I am competing I top them off after 10 or so landings just to make sure they are good. I have even carried brake fluid to events and on fly outs if I think I will be doing a lot of short stuff. A few years back at a event we had a guy (on 31s) do a great landing tail high braking when it started to go over and let the tail drop to the ground he was only doing about 5 -8 mph at that time and he locked both wheels up at the same time and even that slow went over on his nose.
DENNY

 

[KevinJ]

I’ve never had that good of luck keeping them locked up with all the above combinations plus Beringers on different configured cubs. Wet grass of course, hard surface not so much…..the initial impact of locked up bushwheels on pavement makes me sick

 

[BritishCubBloke]

I went down a rabbit hole this morning after watching the video posted below from Alaska Gear Company and would like to here from someone who has used these. Sean says in his video that they are lighter, make more pressure and are cheaper. I have Dakota Cub master cylinders on my Super Cub and have installed a lot of Steve's Vented Brake Boosters.

I like Dakota's because everything is new and I install these on rebuilds because I have access to under the floor. If you buy Dakota's kit for $1638.48 you get inspection plates, grommets and adjustable brake rods which helps gain access to the master cylinders and gets rid of those non adjustable welding rods to inner connect the front and rear brake pedals. I really like the adjustability of the DC brake rods and the high capacity brake reservoir, check the indicator in the fill hole at annual and go. $1470.48 for just the two master cylinders.

I like Steve's to replace those pesky non-vented master cylinders that I can bleed in the morning and can't push the airplane out in the afternoon warmth. They fit on the factory Scott frame and it is a pretty easy upgrade especially when using NAS1352-08-8P Allen head screws to install them. Nice big reservoir that I only have to look at at annual. $890 for the pair of master cylinders ready to bolt on your Scott frames.

Alaska Gear Company is using a 13/16" piston diameter and they say you get more pressure and a progressive feel. I know Dakota Cub uses a 1" piston and I believe Steve's is 1" as well. Not sure how you get the more progressive feel, the stroke is the same, limited by pedal travel, I can understand more braking pressure but I have not had an issue with enough pressure even when I was on 35s but I hear some folks do. Will be interested to hear PIREPs on these new brakes and how the feel and perform differently than what is out there.

Dakota Cub Master cylinder with extended reservoir 1.5 lbs each.
View attachment 107468
Steve's brakes with Scott frame and pedal 1.8 lbs each.
View attachment 107469

Alaska Gear Company posts 1.08 lbs each for their new brake master cylinder.

Dakota Cub $1470.48 pair or #1638.48 for the kit
Alaska Gear Company $1375 a pair
Steve's Brakes $890 a pair

High-Pressure Brake Master Cylinder

The High-Pressure Brake Master Cylinder features a 13/16” diameter piston, providing superior hydraulic pressure with minimal foot pedal effort. This smaller piston diameter generates higher pressure, resulting in a more controlled and progressive brake feel, enhancing pilot control and safety...

alaskagearcompany.com

Steve's Aircraft Vented Booster Brake

General Aviation Maintenance Specializing in single engine fixed gear. Owner assisted annuals. STC Developments Fabric Specialist

www.stevesaircraft.com

I need to make a decision. PA18-150 on 31s.

Steve's
Dakota
Alaska Gear
Alaska Gear PLUS the parking brakes

Thoughts?

 

[rebel]

I installed the Alaska gear master cylinders, huge improvement!
I had the original scott cylinders with parking brakes, braking was marginal at best on 31s and 35s. Always topping off the reservoirs or bleeding them. The poor braking was even worse when I switched to amphibs, single puck brakes, I couldn't taxi straight in heavier cross winds, i could barely hold still to do a run up, etc. I was ready to buy anything better than my Scott's, and vented! I would recommend these masters, they do have a great linear progressive feel, easily hold for a run up, are lighter and decreased the pedal force required by half or more. These bleed exactly like the non vented Scott's, no special procedures. I have no experience with the other options and I am on amphibs yet, so no 35 bushwheel braking to report. Big job to install, had to cut the belly to get access, but worth it!

 

[Steve Pierce]

I need to make a decision. PA18-150 on 31s.

Steve's
Dakota
Alaska Gear
Alaska Gear PLUS the parking brakes

Thoughts?

Are you doing a rebuild or modifying a flying airplane. If modifying a flying airplane I prefer Steve's hands down. They bolt right to the frame/pedal and linkage that is already there. Easy install and they work great. Just installed a set on a CC18 on amphibs.

 

[BritishCubBloke]

Are you doing a rebuild or modifying a flying airplane. If modifying a flying airplane I prefer Steve's hands down. They bolt right to the frame/pedal and linkage that is already there. Easy install and they work great. Just installed a set on a CC18 on amphibs.

Modifying a flying airplane. Thanks, Steve! You are such a fountain of knowledge and share it so generously.