53 180 questions.

[Tom3holer]

I had been looking at a nice 54 but my offer was rejected.

I just ran across a 53 which I will be looking at tomorrow.

It is low time at 2400tt and has a new engine.

My biggest gripe is the 43 has no baggage door! does anyone have a 53 and can they comment on the difficulty of loading/unloading.
Is there any mods that add a baggage door?
One more question if I may. Is there anything particular to the 53 I should to know about?

Tom

 

[stewartb]

A friend has a '53 and likes it fine. I'm not sure if he has a Selkirk extended baggage but he added an Alaska Bush Pod for improved loading options. Keep in mind it's a low gross airframe unless you add Wing X extensions. They're known for being light but not all of them match their paper weight.

 

[mvivion]

The 53 180 fuselage aft is virtually identical to the 170B, which does not have a baggage door. Lots of these airplanes have been modified with a baggage door, however, if that's important to you.

It is a BIT of a PITA to retrieve stuff out of an extended baggage compartment without a baggage door, but I did it for twenty years, and it never really bothered me that much. It certainly wouldn't prevent me from buying an otherwise good airplane.

MTV

 

[stewartb]

FWIW, a pair of Atlee/BAS/Lakevue folding jump seats would solve most of any inconvenience. I rarely have rear seats installed and load 95% of any cargo through the pilot door with the seat moved forward. The only time I use the baggage door is to latch the pilot door to lock the plane or to let the dog jump in and out now that she's getting too old to hop through the pilot door.

 

[Tom3holer]

Thanks all you for the positive advice.
I fly out tomorrow to look at it.
will report back.

Tom

 

[mghallen]

I have a '53 with a baggage door added. It is wonderful, I allows me to air out the plane while I load tote, barrels, moose parts through the pilot door. I also had baggage doors only cub, had not now. No loss.

 

[hotrod180]

My 53 has BAS jumpseats, and loading/unloading the standard baggage area through the main doors is no problem. But getting anything out of the extended baggage means climbing in and crawling back. PITA but not a big deal, so don't let it be a deal killer. A baggage door can be installed, but they're not cheap, it's a lot of work to install, and if you don't get an exact match on the paint it looks bad. I have more important things to spend my money on for now.

 

[skukum12]

Since we are talking baggage doors, when were they first installed at the factory? My 54 had one, didnt know 180s ever came without.

 

[Wingwrench]

53 was the only year without the baggage door I believe, I put one in mine.

 

[Tom3holer]

Thank you all for the advice and help.
I got up at 2:30 this morning to drive to Boston to fly to Omaha via Detroit to drive 2 hours to look at the 180.
When I landed in Omaha I has a message on my phone. It was from a gentleman nearby in NH that has a lovely 74 185 that I looked at last Fall. I had madr him an offer a while back and he pretty much accepted it.
It took about 10 seconds for me to decide to call the 180 owner and explain I would not be coming to see his 180. Never left the gate area in Omaha, caught the same plane back to Boston.
So hopefully my quest is over pending my IA's nod of approval.

I am sure I will have many more questions as time goes by. Again, thank you all.

Tom

 

[stewartb]

Anticipatory congrats!

Factory paint scheme? I've always thought 1974 was the best paint scheme for Skywagons. Great airplane.

 

[skywagon8a]

Show them the pics Tom. It is a pretty airplane.

 

[Tom3holer]

I have to have my IA look at it in a few days.
Its actually a late 73 model with 130 SMOH on a factory engine and 3 blade prop. Min avionics which is fine, Spotrsman Stol, VGs, AOA indicator, standard fuel with Monarch wing tanks for 100Gal total. Well maintained as best as I can tell. The BIG issue is the TT is 9830. The price is in the low 90'S.
I welcome any thoughts. Let me rephrase that, I would very much appreciate any thoughts.

Tom

 

[cubdriver2]

Tom, is this your new ride?




Glenn

 

[mvivion]

I have to have my IA look at it in a few days.
Its actually a late 73 model with 130 SMOH on a factory engine and 3 blade prop. Min avionics which is fine, Spotrsman Stol, VGs, AOA indicator, standard fuel with Monarch wing tanks for 100Gal total. Well maintained as best as I can tell. The BIG issue is the TT is 9830. The price is in the low 90'S.
I welcome any thoughts. Let me rephrase that, I would very much appreciate any thoughts.

Tom

Tom,

Frankly, I wouldn't get too concerned over that total time. There are a lot of higher time Cessnas out there, working every day. If it's well maintained, I wouldn't consider the total time to be a huge deal at all.

Good luck and keep us posted.

MTV

 

[soyAnarchisto]

sounds like a decent deal with a low time engine - that and a 3-blade prop is a smooth combo. bonus point for sportsman. i didn't know monarch made wing tanks but I'm not familiar with the later 180s - well I'm not that familiar with the early ones either. Best of luck. Only advice i can offer is make sure you give her a good look for corrosion in the usual places.

 

[Tom3holer]

I hope to have the prebuy done this coming Tuesday and if that goes OK will do the deal.
Cubdriver2 no that isn't the plane but it is blue and white. I will post some pictures if it all goes well.
Mvivion, thank you for the thoughts on the high time airframe. The IA that is going to look at it is a 180/185 fan and very knowledgeable. I am anxious to see what his opinion will be.

T

 

[Steve Pierce]

Look at the skin above the lift struts. That is where the high time Cessna's I have seen crack.

 

[aktango58]

If I had traveled all the way south to look at a plane, I would have gone ahead and given it the eye 'just in case', especially since you have not had the pre-purchase inspection completed. But that is old information now.

Look at the skins in the gear box area and make sure they have not been pulled into dimples by the rivets. Also look long at the top of the wings along the spars for cracks around rivets; pay very close attention above the strut attach points.

I am flying a 185 amphib with 15+ plus hours in and out of salt daily. Wings got new skins this last year. Takes more abuse than a wheel plane, and takes lots of time to get that many hours on a plane.

If it is good, just get it and fly it. Otherwise you will just be shopping, and never fly.

 

[skywagon8a]

I have found cracks in wing skins on 180/185 airplanes which had very low time. They were caused by improper fitting of the skins and riveting when they were manufactured. A pucker of the skin when it was originally built can lead to a crack. I can show you one on my own 185 which I found very early on in it's life. It received a small repair and has been satisfactory ever since. These airplanes were not built like a fine Swiss watch. In summary if there is a crack, determine what the cause may be. Make the buy determination based on that. I wouldn't let a small easily repaired crack squash an otherwise good deal.

 

[OLDCROWE]

I hope it's what you want, sounds like a good fit and is well equipped.

Take a look at the fuselage skin just ahead of the horizontal on the pilots side, there should be a rivet just there just ahead of the horizontals leading edge. That's the index point for adjusting the trim system (middle of the leading edge should align with the rivet for take-off trim, a good preflight thing to look at for a fail safe as the wheel indicator can ann slip and be off). In airframes that have been reskinned it's often missing and can be a tell tale sign of major repairs that can be no issue or undocumented... and while you're back there look at the horiz. counter weights and look for any flex in the bottom skin of the horiz, they take a beating back there and it will tell you if the maintenance has been kept up and look over the stinger and feel for excessive flex in the bushings or misalignment of the TW (that was my first introduction to get world of "you have got to be kidding me" parts pricing and availability).

 

[stewartb]

If your IA gives it the thumbs-up.... look out the windscreen and push the balls to the wall. Have fun with it.

Tom, PM me with an email and I can send you the pdf for the 1969-76 Skywagon SID document (402 pages) and the 50 page revision supplement. Find out what Cessna thinks needs looking at on high time airframes. Not that you need to do any of it but it doesn't hurt to know about it.

 

[OLDCROWE]

If your IA gives it the thumbs-up.... look out the windscreen and push the balls to the wall. Have fun with it.

Best advice of the entire discussion!

 

[Tom3holer]

Thank you all, again, for the most valuable advice.

I did spend a couple of hours looking it over last Fall and only saw a couple of issues. The flap te stiffener when eyed end foe end was noticeably mot straight. The other issue was the aileron skins were concave much like my 58 180 rudder.

I will report after the prebuy.

T

 

[hotrod180]

....Take a look at the fuselage skin just ahead of the horizontal on the pilots side, there should be a rivet just there just ahead of the horizontals leading edge. That's the index point for adjusting the trim system (middle of the leading edge should align with the rivet for take-off trim, a good preflight thing to look at for a fail safe as the wheel indicator can ann slip and be off). In airframes that have been reskinned it's often missing and can be a tell tale sign of major repairs that can be no issue or undocumented......

First time I ever heard of that. I checked my 1953 180 & no sign of said rivet. Saw a 55 model on the ramp today & checked- no rivet on that one either. A buddy of mine has owned both a 54 & a 56 180, he'd never heard of this or noticed it on either of his airplanes.
Forgot to check the series 100 service manual for mention of it but I'll do that tomorrow.

 

[aktango58]

It is on the newer ones for sure

 

[OLDCROWE]

First time I ever heard of that. I checked my 1953 180 & no sign of said rivet. Saw a 55 model on the ramp today & checked- no rivet on that one either. A buddy of mine has owned both a 54 & a 56 180, he'd never heard of this or noticed it on either of his airplanes.
Forgot to check the series 100 service manual for mention of it but I'll do that tomorrow.

Not sure when they started it, mines a 79. Might have been added to ease an otherwise PIA adjustment issue or as a walk around check. I was told anything with the big fin is supposed to have it and I've seen reskins that do and some that don't but I never shopped for anything older...they all have their charms and quirks

 

[stewartb]

How does the Skywagon trim indicator slip? I've never seen it happen. You might install it incorrectly if you take it apart but it's hard to imagine one slipping.

 

[OLDCROWE]

How does the Skywagon trim indicator slip? I've never seen it happen. You might install it incorrectly if you take it apart but it's hard to imagine one slipping.

Had the back part of the little pointer thingie bind and jump the spiral track it runs in, might not have been installed properly at some point but it was a good bit off when we were trying to diagnose a trim limit issue (improper Jack Screw indexing, which is why I know the importance of that damn rivet) as the visible part of the pointer was going out of site aft and I was running out of trim and it had gotten worse over time. Who knows, my mechanic said it can bind up then boing he also told me "airplane stuff happens" as he fixed what the Cessna Service Center did (his theory was they used the pointer which was likely off as the index point vs the rivet) when they adjusted the jack screws.

 

[stewartb]

The common things Skywagon guys do, and not just guys with high time airframes, is to wobble the tail and make sure the tail spring is solid and that the tailwheel isn't rocking on the spring. Grab the horizontals and give them a firm lift to make sure the assembly doesn't have play. Do the same with the fin. If the wing quick drains haven't been updated get it done. Good sumping is important. Make sure the baffles are sitting properly against the top cowl. It's interesting to watch different guys install their cowls. My mechanic installs the top first so he can see the baffles are sitting right before the bottom cowl goes on. I've never had a problem doing the top last but I know my plane and how the baffles fit. Just a few thoughts on a Sunday morning.