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185 Insurance for Low Time

I got a $6,400/year quote from Avemco on a $225k hull value 185. Wheels only

I have about 130 hours- 110 of it tailwheel. 85 hours last 12 months.

Is this about what I can expect?

I’m surprised they’ll even insure you with that amount of hours…Averaging 7hrs a month! What could possibly go wrong?

Ditto. Frankly, without a LOT of dual, that is mighty risky.

MTV
 
One of my students with 50 hours total tailwheel is buying a Bull Stearman. Had it been a 220, I would have continued as his instructor - but not me. I am sure I could fly it just fine, but like the 185, I think a student needs several hundred Cub hours first. I am not ready to be an instructor in that scenario.
 
So go back to the I want to get a 185/206/ect posts and see what several of the members here have said!! "you need more time!!!" AVEMCO put all the polite cautions we expressed into dollars!! They are being very generous. My math says they gamble 35 average 130 hour pilots could get into any 185 and fly it for a year for only less then 6,400 dollars (I think they are smoking dope)!! I would grab that in a heartbeat, you are living the dream on every other 185 pilot skill. AVEMCO is the best, pay the money they have your back and will drop the price as your hours increase!! Just suck it up and go fly 200 hours next year, the price will go down, right after you take the wife on that REALLY nice trip for a week or two!!!
DENNY
 
I'd tend to agree thats a pretty honest deal. My 185, insured to slightly less, is about $2000/year. 7000TT, 2000 T/W, ATP and all the recurrent training discounts possible from hauling rubber dog sh*t for a living. These airplanes insurance is sky rocketing due to the number of people that are buying them and promptly tearing the gear out; not to mention the cost to maintain them as they need and deserve. Understanding the limitations of both yourself and your machine is how we all keep our premiums low. Apologies if this sounds harsh, I don't intend it to be.
 
I’m surprised your quote is that low considering todays market for insurance. I also am insured with avemco. I’m paying 4700 or so for 300K hull value on 180. A few years ago I had 180 and husky insured with them for similar values and paid 5K total for the two. Now it is nearly 5K each. No claims and all offered discounts.
 
This week I attended International 180 185 annual convention here in Tulsa and one of the speakers was for "Tech Night" was Alicia Oliver who runs the Sky Wagon program at Bill White Insurance. Great presentation, she knows her stuff. While most of the questions were age related (it wasn't a young crowd) there was good discussion about lower time coverage as well.

My take aways were:

It's a shallow gene pool for aircraft coverage, even more so for high performance tail wheel, pick an agent or broker and stay put as shopping them will mess with quotes and potential quotes.

Don't fly less than 40 hours per year.

For age, you won't get new coverage past 75 years of age unless you have a current aircraft policy and that includes changing companies. If you're older and bend one, don't drop the coverage until you have a replacement in hand and then convert the policy (that way it is not considered "new", this goes for all ages as well). Over 75 don't sell your only plane, drop coverage and go shopping for your next one or you will have trouble.

Find a carrier you like that is age agreeable and stay insured and stay put as you age. Was also warned that some carriers are requiring an FAA medical each year, and some are even requiring an EKG each year and are refusing Basic Med for senior pilots.

For low time (and I asked this one for my daughter). The magic Sky Wagon minimums are 750 hours TT, all required endorsements, 150 hours tail wheel, 25 hours Sky Wagon (180, 185 and combined), also expect a minimum amount of dual + a minimum amount of Make and Model hours before passengers (these vary by carrier) and no reportable issues in the past 5 years. With these you'll get the standard rates, and there are discounts for advanced ratings, medicals and multi-aircraft. Expect significant difficulty below these minimums, and steep rates if you can even find coverage.

Kirby
 
OP here. Figure I should update.

When I bought plane in April Insurance I ended up much better than anticipated.

$6700/yr on $300k hull from Avemco.

I had maybe 160 TT and 140 tailwheel at the time.

I did have another plane insured with them.

BWI was $10,500 with much more onerous CFI and checkout requirements. Avemco just required 10 hrs of dual and 10 full stop.

I am coming up on 50 hrs in make/model so hoping to get a drop there. Instrument rating training begins in fall which they said is a big drop.

Dont ask me how it ended up that way. I do have alot of “continued education credits” with Avemco. Wings. Upset prevention and recovery, etc. whenever I do something like that I call them and let them know and see if there is a discount. I also update my hours on those calls.

Rep told me I had “every discount available” last time I called.

YMMV
 
Reminds me- saw a video from a guy who bought a Kodiak while in primary.

His initial insurance was $120k/yr. and I don’t think he could fly solo. Ended up getting it down to $60k/yr. He hadn’t researched insurance much before buying the plane I think he said.

Its all relative I guess.

https://youtu.be/1A4sPWZDBMc
 
OP here. Figure I should update.

When I bought plane in April Insurance I ended up much better than anticipated.

$6700/yr on $300k hull from Avemco.

I had maybe 160 TT and 140 tailwheel at the time.

I did have another plane insured with them.

BWI was $10,500 with much more onerous CFI and checkout requirements. Avemco just required 10 hrs of dual and 10 full stop.

I am coming up on 50 hrs in make/model so hoping to get a drop there. Instrument rating training begins in fall which they said is a big drop.

Dont ask me how it ended up that way. I do have alot of “continued education credits” with Avemco. Wings. Upset prevention and recovery, etc. whenever I do something like that I call them and let them know and see if there is a discount. I also update my hours on those calls.

Rep told me I had “every discount available” last time I called.

YMMV

That’s the way you do it…..good for you!

MTV
 
OP here. Figure I should update.

When I bought plane in April Insurance I ended up much better than anticipated.

$6700/yr on $300k hull from Avemco.

I had maybe 160 TT and 140 tailwheel at the time.

I did have another plane insured with them.

BWI was $10,500 with much more onerous CFI and checkout requirements. Avemco just required 10 hrs of dual and 10 full stop.

I am coming up on 50 hrs in make/model so hoping to get a drop there. Instrument rating training begins in fall which they said is a big drop.

Dont ask me how it ended up that way. I do have alot of “continued education credits” with Avemco. Wings. Upset prevention and recovery, etc. whenever I do something like that I call them and let them know and see if there is a discount. I also update my hours on those calls.

Rep told me I had “every discount available” last time I called.

YMMV

op again


Well, this is rich.

just got my renewals.

no claims, about 100+ more total time, 80 now in make and model (as oppossed to 0) and Avemco is RAISING my insurance 27%.

so 0 time it was $6700

now with 80 hrs its $8600

explain that one.

also raised my cub insurance 21%
 
op again


Well, this is rich.

just got my renewals.

no claims, about 100+ more total time, 80 now in make and model (as oppossed to 0) and Avemco is RAISING my insurance 27%.

so 0 time it was $6700

now with 80 hrs its $8600

explain that one.

also raised my cub insurance 21%

It sounds like they are simply raising their rates across the board. Seems like there's a lot of that going around.

MTV
 
Update: called avemco and got reduced $1300

Updates hours again ( flew alot in last month)
Got training discount
Changed seats insured to 4 from 6 in 185 (thought it was at 4 already)

Still up from last year maybe 15%
 
The sad reality is while you are building hours in hopes of getting lower insurance premiums, there are a bunch of 180/185s and other planes out there getting sold for more and more money, getting repaired from wear which uses up parts making cost to repair more expensive, and planes getting wrecked from tornados, wind storms, and accidents that causes loss to underwriters and again drives prices up on repair parts, purchase of aircraft and insurance.

They are not making any more of them, soon many parts will be made of unobtanium.
 
It looks like you're also getting the 30% discount for not being insured in Alaska:lol:!! Ouch, I was feeling pretty good with my rates til I saw yours!
 
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10K TT, 2500 TW, 1300 in a 180K valued at $225K and I pay $4K a year at Avemco. I've been their customer for 23 years with one weather-related claim (plane was tied down at MRI and the tie-downs held).

Nothing about wagons is cheap.

I highly encourage you to get some good instruction. Best I've had is from Leigh Smith in Indiana.
 
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