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180-185 which one

Sorry to be away so long.
I am still looking for that 185. Have looked at several from Canada to Seattle, but still have not found the right one. My quest has been put on hold for 6 mo or so.
Had a medical issue pop up Feb 29 so have to wait 6 mo to see if i can get my medical back.

Tom

Did you sell your J3?
 
An outpost owner in remote Ontario that I respect very much used to run 2 180's and a Norseman for his short haul camps and charter. He made a lot of money. I would always quiz him why he didn't have an Otter, Beaver, or 185's and 206's sitting at the dock. He would just smile and say it comes down to economics, dollars and sense. He worked those planes right up to the envelope with good pilots and never needed to buy what the competition was moving toward. Nice 185 in ND on BS owned by nice people.
 
There is a nice original 185B over here in the UK, under-utilised but airworthy and hangared, am pretty sure available for sale.

If I suffered from an n+1 syndrome with airplanes I might try and buy it, but then I remember the PA18 puts the biggest smile for the least pounds, shillings and pence, so the feeling passes without the need for a stiff drink.
 
185--180

The 185 didn't usurp its smaller brother's earned title as "the pilot's aircraft."
 
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I have been away for a bit with other issues and now just getting back in the search/research game again.
Just missed the second best deal on a 185 I've seen in my 1 year search. Seller,owners friend, never returned 3 messages on his phone. Finally tracked down the owner and it was just sold that day. I have learned that sellers rarely respond to emails from listings in Barnstormers or TAP. Best to call and sometimes that will work.
I have a question on a particular bird I looked at last Fall and am still interested in. Would like some advice from those here that are far more experienced than I.

A 73 185 with low time factory engine 3 bladed prop, both installed in 2006 I believe. Basic radios, 2 comms, no G/S. Nice paint and interior with Sprotsman and VG's 100gal of fuel standard length wings and it is located nearby.
I looked it over for about 2 hours pulling a panels in the tail and it looked corrosion free and well preserved. It spent most of its life at Kenmore and has full records. One ground loop a few years back fixed well as best as I can tell with wing sent out to Ohio for repair.
The BIG issue, to me, is the airframe time, which is approx 9800hrs. The price is just under 100k. My concern is the resale value when it gets over 10k hrs.
I will have my mechanic look at it in detail if I decide to go this route.

Just would like any thoughts on this from anyone.

Thanks,
Tom
 
Personally, that's more hours than I would be comfortable with but it doesn't mean it's worn out but parts and pieces may be and availability is beginning to be an issue with some thingies. Learn what to look for in photos and have a mechanic ready to go look with you.


The secret to purchasing anything in demand is you have to be persistent (look at the adds every day and use more than one search engine, make contact by every method they list in), admit that you're not going to find a steal, be 100% ready (funds committed and ready to jump, on the good ones as you can't contemplate too long or they evaporate), and be flexible (180 or 185, year, color, and be willing to cancel a vacation when the a good one pops up, ...).

If you haven't already establish what you minimums are for equipment and condition and what you maximum is for $$ and work up variables for avionics, autopilot etc. and know what it will cost to do upgrades.

I was lucky and sort of knew the seller from a friend who had tried to buy it previously but I looked at many others to confirm and then dove in but allowed him to take one last trip before we closed.

Good luck, and if you don't already have some Skywagon time get some dual.

Kirby
 
Just trying to help as old timer at end of days in the woods: age and your mission come into re-sale value. Work or pleasure or both? Time in service of reputable-maintenance corporation wouldn't put me off; hundreds of Beavers of heavy lugging have more time on their frames.

Adding your own reputation as prudent and conscientious owner shouldn't make much difference for re-sale. Then, there's the mystical and magical. If you're of a certain age, buying a good plane for personal use at what you feel is reasonable price, forget re-sale, live brightly to the end.
 
Number of hours can be misleading.

My friends 180 was the best ever, 9,000 hours. He had owned it for 50+ years, sold for 55k. It was a photo plane, as in doing 10,000' altitude transects for hours at a time. Light loads and few cycles nice VFR. Did not get beat up with heavy loads on short strips it's entire life, and did not have a float kit.

The 185 I am flying has 15,000 hours on it, (new wings this year), and we fly it every day into salt and some rough water. Big tires and floats put more wear on the plane.

The thing to watch for is loose rivet joints and gear box. Having someone pull and push the lift struts while you watch the underside between the gear legs, and inside the gear box can tell you quite a bit about the wear. Also, look at the size of rivets, and if they have been sucked down and pulled the aluminum into a dimple... indicators of wear.

After a while the aluminum skins will have elongated holes in the seams. The only way to tell is by seeing vibration dust tracks, or watch it move. All the gear box wear can be replaced/repaired, just costs money. Same with wings.

But again, I can put as much wear on a bird in 2,000 hours as some birds get in 10,000 just from float and off airport work. So ask how it has been used.
 
...A 73 185 with low time factory engine 3 bladed prop, both installed in 2006 I believe. Basic radios, 2 comms, no G/S. Nice paint and interior with Sprotsman and VG's 100gal of fuel standard length wings and it is located nearby.
...The BIG issue, to me, is the airframe time, which is approx 9800hrs. The price is just under 100k. My concern is the resale value when it gets over 10k hrs. ......

That sounds like a pretty reasonable price to me, as I rarely see a 185 for sale under $100K.
Low time factory engine & 3 blade prop are value adders, as are sportsman cuff & LR fuel.
See if you can find something similar for sale but with only a couple thousand hours on the airframe, then ask yourself if the lower airframe time is worth the difference in price.
Personally, unless you really need the range & gross weight, I'd be looking harder at early C180's- you can get a helluva one of those (ponked, sportsmanned, etc) for that same $100K or less.
 
Thank you all for all the valuable advice.

I have a must have list and a would like to have list and that is somewhat flexible taking into consideration TT and condition and price.
I do worry about resale because if I fly west unexpectedly I'd like to know the wife could sell it without taking a big loss.

The plane in question spent over half its life/hours with Kenmore Air in Seattle much of the time on floats.
Looking at the underbelly rivets they all seem to be correct size and I see no fretting.

Fortunately I have time to look as my Summer flying plans have changed and I don't need it right now.

Tom
 
All I will say is it's perceived value is less than the price the seller is willing to accept or it would not still be for sale after six or more months. This should tell you that if there was a need to sell it would take several months or accepting a significant loss to cash out. "Good deals" are usually sold before they get to the common "for sale listings" and if they do make it to the ads sell quickly. Tom, please do not take offense, but my perception is that right now you are a "shopper" not a "buyer" and would only buy if a "deal". Nothing wrong with that, at times I have been the same, but the few "deals" that I have gotten took a week or less from first call to picking up.

I know where there is a 180K with about 1800 TT, less than 300 SMOH engine and prop due to ground loop with the repair to one gear box. Original paint, interior, radios and Edo 2960s. A friend offered the elderly owner getting out of flying 90 and was turned down. Now, would this plane be a "deal", probably not as it needs 15 in paint, 10 in interior and 10 to 40 in avionics depending on what a person wants to do with it.

180s and 185s are versatile airplanes with high perceived value, good deals are hard to find unless the seller has to cash out do to some outside factor.

Just the thoughts of a guy who has bought and sold a few airplanes, sometimes at a loss.

Tim
 
The plane in question spent over half its life/hours with Kenmore Air in Seattle much of the time on floats.

Tom

That right there should tell you a whole bunch! Kenmore Air is top notch in keeping planes nice. However, they also operate a commercial airline flying in and out of SALT WATER, including some landings that are on not so smooth surfaces. My bet that bird did some torpedo transport out of Keyport among other things.

For me, that history and that time would be a real decrease in value if it indeed was one of their charter aircraft.

But consider the cost of engine time/prop. A factory reman and new prop is about $40,000, $16,000 for 3 blade last I looked so $46,000. Blue book is figured at mid-time on the engine, so that is $16,100 in engine/prop value, making the plane around $80,000 in value plus the engine. Pretty low for a 185.

I know where there is a late 60's 185 on amphibs for $105,000 that has been brought up to sweet condition if you are interested. pm me if you want the info.
 
Thanks again for the suggestions and thoughts.
The nearby 185 is not advertised which is why it's still around.
Kenmore ownership is, I guess is good and bad in that they maintaince was most likely good but it was used as a workhorse.
 
Thanks again for the suggestions and thoughts.
The nearby 185 is not advertised which is why it's still around.
Kenmore ownership is, I guess is good and bad in that they maintaince was most likely good but it was used as a workhorse.

Most with any time were.
 
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