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160 Pacer STC

A

ag-pilot

GONE WEST
Mt.
Anyone know if there is a STC to put a 160 in a 51 Pacer? I just traded my Vagabond for a 125 pacer that has the factory float kit and all the rigging and spreader bars for floats. I also got a narrow deck 0320 B2B and prop that I might put in it if there is a STC. Also would like to find a set of Cal Center wing tips or simular to give it a bit more wing.
Thanks,
Dave
 
Wag Aero has an STC for the O-320. Not sure if it covers the 160 hp or not. Cost $150 I think. Someone else has one but can't think of it off the top of my head.
 
Why can't you modify to meet the specs on the type certificate data sheet as a PA-22S 160 horse?
 
A 1951 Pacer has a different fuselage and one less rib in the wing. $150 pretty cheap or if you had an FAA inspector with comon sense he would approve it. The Univair STC for installing the O-360 on the Pacer only applies to the Tri-Pacer converted to Pacer PA22/20. Got the ok to install on a straight PA20 Pacer but my PMI knows about little airplanes. Had plenty that didn't before I found him.
 
Is it a PA-20 or a tripe conversion? If it's a PA-20 I think you're out of luck for 160hp. Univair may have an STC. Have you talked to the Short wing piper club?
Good luck
 
You are right TJ. I had to brush up on that recently.

ag-pilot, If you need help with paperwork let me know. Got several 160 hp Clippers in the works with approvals are promised, just waiting on me to get them finished.
 
PACER

Thanks for the info guys. THis is the only Pacer I've ever flown and I have to say it was pretty good even with the 125. Its not a Super Cub but it seems to be close to a cessna 172 in takeoff and cruise. One thing S2D pointed out is the gear seems to be VERY narrow even more than the Vagabond, are they all this way? do they want to swap ends all the time? Brian is going to be giving my boys lessons in it so I guess they will learn to work the pedals right from the start and brian will earn his instructors fee.
Dave
 
Dave:
The original Pacer had a very narrow gear. Most of them were modified with the "wide gear" . Its been a long time since I've seen a "narrow gear Pacer".
If its got narrow gear, I'd change it to the wide gear. I may be wrong, but I think it was a Piper Approved mod.
 
I would check the gear alignment also. A lot of Pacers have been groundlooped and not repaired correctly. Should be straight or a hint of toe in. I learned in a Clipper that has the same narrow gear, though sensitive on the rudder it tracks straight.
 
I had a 1950, narrow-gear Pacer with the 125. What a great little airplane! Lightly loaded, I could cruise 125 mph all day on 6.2 gph. The secret to this story, though, was "lightly loaded". Putting a second or third person on board made it a lead sled. I always thought that a 150 or 160 would make it an ideal airplane. Waa Dee had a 180 and a CS prop in his, and it was a rocket. That is, it was until the engine shucked itself over Lake Texoma :yikez:

The neat thing about the Pacer was that, with the power off and the flaps down, you could descend through a manhole without touching the wingtips. Easy to get it into places that you couldn't get out of.

I owned mine twice over a period of about 5 years. Sold it to a friend, who promptly groundlooped it, and shortened the already short wings about another two feet each. He totally rebuilt it and sold it back to me. I flew it another 2 years, and sold it again. Made money on it both times! :D
 
Re: PACER

ag-pilot said:
Thanks for the info guys. THis is the only Pacer I've ever flown and I have to say it was pretty good even with the 125. Its not a Super Cub but it seems to be close to a cessna 172 in takeoff and cruise. One thing S2D pointed out is the gear seems to be VERY narrow even more than the Vagabond, are they all this way? do they want to swap ends all the time? Brian is going to be giving my boys lessons in it so I guess they will learn to work the pedals right from the start and brian will earn his instructors fee.
Dave
Click to expand...

ag-pilot,

A 1953, 135 horse Pacer was my first plane. I too thought it was a real performer and probably one of the best buys out there. As far as wanting to swap ends...they do. :D At the time I had significant experience in a citabria and in a Super Cub. I felt really comfortable in those planes. When I flew the Pacer for the first time I had the distinct feeling that it was flying me! It literally took about 3 hours of dual, on grass, to feel like I wasn't going to wad it up. Then another 15 or so to feel confident. After two years I sold the plane to get my 180 which was a breeze to transition to comparitively.

That's one of the reasons I bought the pacer in the first place; a close friend of mine told me "if you can go 100 hours in a pacer without groundlooping it then you have really learned how to fly a tail wheel airplane." I agree with him wholeheartedly.

Bill
 
We got 4-5 Pacers in the little town where I live, some guys like em'. The one guy who is very good, as good as ANYONE in a Pacer, says the drop tips make a huge difference.
They are what they are, a good plane for the money. Of course they are short coupled so you gotta be on them rudders all the time. Also it seems like you gotta run around at 2,400-2,500+ RPM just to try to keep the tail up. The guys around here run Cub tailfeather on them.
One guy has hauled fish in a Pacer off the beach, I seen him one day un-load about 900lbs!

Good Flying..>Byron

P.S... Ag Pilot, I didn't get that part back yet, maybe latter this week or next week.
 
Brian, I saw a couple pics of parts in your dad's gallery that were labelled "Cherokee taildragger". What's up with that!

Rooster
 
You mean "this" one.......
213cherokeefinal.jpg


This is PhotoShop at its best. But it is also something that we are working on. We have the gear leg, spacer block and are working on getting the interior mounting blocks made. We have a spare fuselage for the drop testing, and yes we are going for a multiple STC. Been working on it for about 4 years now and hopefully will have a completed airplane within the next 2 years.

BTW on the subject of Pacers again. We have noticed for the best overall performance for the money, a PA-22/20 160 with Demer or Plane-Booster (now Cub Crafters) tips and Micro VG's is the perfect combination. Cub tail feathers are not STC'd for the Pacer. We have tried a set, but found the stock feathers with VG's performs about the same as the Cub feathers without.

Brian.
 
Oppppssss...

In my earlier post I MEANT to say that some of the Pacers around here LOOK like they have Cub tail feathers on them. I didn't realize they weren't legal-beagle. I think someone would really have to have a close eye and really know what they were looking for to tell the difference between original Pacer tail feather & Cub tail feathers. Hell, they're both rounded and look damm-near the same. In my case for example I made the mistake and confused the two. One set has a tad more surface area, I suppose to help hold the tail up?

Test the water some.....I wonder how the Feds would feel if they knew somone made there own (fixed pitch Borer) progressive-pitched prop? :roll:

Good Flying...>Byron
 
Eddie Trimmer at Willow Alaska is working on a long list of STCs for Pacers. Engines, wings, gear, left door, he is up on what can be field approved and STC modified.
 
A friend of mine flies a Clipper with a 290-D2, it's a good performer light but a real dog when it's loaded with all (or should I say ALL) the camping gear (including wife). Another friend's 150-horse Pacer does much better.

Rooster
 
T.J. Hinkle said:
OK, I dug through all the crap on my desk and found Change 16.
It does in fact, say the following.....
"Substituting or altering a recip. engine such that the net result is an increase of more than 10% greater H.P." requires an STC.
So, any increase in H.P. up to 10% is either a Minor Alteration or can be done with a Field Approval?
I think that means, Dave can buy the STC for 150 H.P. then install the 160 H.P. using that section from Change 16, as a deviation.
Give it a try Dave, and let us know how it goes.
Does that mean we can put a 160 H.P in a Cub without an STC? I think so.
Click to expand...
But aren't we up to change 18 or 19 now TJ, which means the FAA might have changed their minds and won't do that anymore??
 
The last one I saw was Change 21. I didn't study it much. I'll go back and look again.
 
Luke_thedrifter said:

"One set has a tad more surface area, I suppose to help hold the tail up? "

I do understand this mis-statement, but remember on all conventionally configured aircraft the tail always "lifts" the tail down countering the weight forward of the CG.

With these planes I think the issue is the CG vs. the C of L. A larger tail surface actually wont lift the tail. The only way to "get the tail up" is to move the CG forward. That's why they fly great lightly loaded - the CG is forward.

My thoughts

John Scott
 
Longwinglover said:
Luke_thedrifter said:

"One set has a tad more surface area, I suppose to help hold the tail up? "
Click to expand...

Possibly, he means "hold the tail up, while on the ground". Additional area would help this. :roll:
 
Ruidoso Ron said:
Longwinglover said:
Luke_thedrifter said:

"One set has a tad more surface area, I suppose to help hold the tail up? "
Click to expand...

Possibly, he means "hold the tail up, while on the ground". Additional area would help this. :roll:
Click to expand...

Ron,

That would be the tail wheel that holds it up while on the ground! :o :lol:
 
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