davidv.lewis
Registered User
Taked to Earth X today and they told me that the testing is finished on the 900 and the STC should be forthcoming in early 18. The new model is the exact same as the EXT900-VNT.[h=3][/h]
Earth X batteries, ok or not?
- Thread starter Smith PA12
- Start date
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
You just need a McGill decal (just like those McCatto props!)
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Years ago they just would have bootstrapped that old battery and got it warm enough to start
Glenn
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
You tell the guy that tomorrow you are going to be inspecting the battery compartment and that you hope that the EarthX battery isn't there in the morning. :lol:
And then you would get an UnAirworthy annual with the missing prop being the discrepancy. Still would need an A&P to sign off a prop installation to complete the annual.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kestrel
PATRON
Southern NH
Be careful about the advice you put out. Did you know that there is a world of difference between Lithium_iron_phosphate (LiFePo) that EarthX uses and lithium cobalt oxide(LiCoO[SUB]2[/SUB]) that Boeing chose. Did you also know that good old lead acid batteries can also pose some very exciting fire hazards?
PerryB
FRIEND
Chico, CA
Now WHO would do something like that ?!
kestrel
PATRON
Southern NH
An ETX900 spins my 8.5:1 compression O-540 much better than the PC680 that was in it.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
porcuypine
Registered User
aviation
Tango,
I have a three/four year old EX, 36D ?, in my pacer under the seat in the original metal box. Skytech NL in line starter.
Yesterday night it dropped down to -9 so after my engine pre heat, four shots of the short primer, pull through four blades, I hop in the cockpit and turn on all the electrical (SOP for lith at these temps) to get the molecules in the battery warmed up for action.
I get half a rotation, stop wait a few seconds, another half a rotation, wait a bit more, and then it spins through and does its usual two cylinder pop pop cold start.
After a conversation with Lady at EX years ago about cold ops I've not worried about it and have had -30 nights where after about four or five tries the battery self warmed itself to function with vigor afterwords i.e.: under prime or flooded.
Before I had the Skytech starter and EX battery I would always hand prop the first start of every winter morning. It warmed up my internal battery too.
Having read that the real enemy of these lith batteries is heat I decided that mounting them on the fire wall was not prudent at this time. I could be wrong about how hot they'd can get safely. I like the it fully enclosed in the metal box too.
Lots of good discussion here and have mine installed under CAR 3 but this is my personal aircraft and would wait for a PMA'ed version before installing one in someone's aircraft. To be honest the EX people did this one right and every time I open my battery box for inspection I just smile: no corrosion, acid, etc, just torque check the fasteners and close her up.
Used to be I always had two or three of those little orange batteries dead on my charging bench but not the last couple years. It was always the hunting guides that came through the village in the fall but not anymore. Ether they figured out how not to smoke them or they have switched up
Thinking there are a good hundred of tales here about acid. I've reskinned a few 100 series spam can bellies after a battery puked, ditto a couple 206 firewall and rudder pedal assemblies, oh ya one left beaver mag after the pilot hand propped and the 80/100 amp jasco "charged" it back up so fast it too boiled itself dry! Billable hours...
I believe there are technologies that will improve the both the safety of aviation and the quality of our experience that seem to be hamstrung by the approval processes. I also believe it is the legacy producers who are causing this.
Wishing the major prop manufactures could have made a Catto-esq one years ago.
Why on earth hasn't Gill got on board?
And when you shake your little snow ball of dreams, the flakes settle down some, notice your little yellow cub on skis in there is going to have an electric power plant...
Rocket
I have a three/four year old EX, 36D ?, in my pacer under the seat in the original metal box. Skytech NL in line starter.
Yesterday night it dropped down to -9 so after my engine pre heat, four shots of the short primer, pull through four blades, I hop in the cockpit and turn on all the electrical (SOP for lith at these temps) to get the molecules in the battery warmed up for action.
I get half a rotation, stop wait a few seconds, another half a rotation, wait a bit more, and then it spins through and does its usual two cylinder pop pop cold start.
After a conversation with Lady at EX years ago about cold ops I've not worried about it and have had -30 nights where after about four or five tries the battery self warmed itself to function with vigor afterwords i.e.: under prime or flooded.
Before I had the Skytech starter and EX battery I would always hand prop the first start of every winter morning. It warmed up my internal battery too.
Having read that the real enemy of these lith batteries is heat I decided that mounting them on the fire wall was not prudent at this time. I could be wrong about how hot they'd can get safely. I like the it fully enclosed in the metal box too.
Lots of good discussion here and have mine installed under CAR 3 but this is my personal aircraft and would wait for a PMA'ed version before installing one in someone's aircraft. To be honest the EX people did this one right and every time I open my battery box for inspection I just smile: no corrosion, acid, etc, just torque check the fasteners and close her up.
Used to be I always had two or three of those little orange batteries dead on my charging bench but not the last couple years. It was always the hunting guides that came through the village in the fall but not anymore. Ether they figured out how not to smoke them or they have switched up
Thinking there are a good hundred of tales here about acid. I've reskinned a few 100 series spam can bellies after a battery puked, ditto a couple 206 firewall and rudder pedal assemblies, oh ya one left beaver mag after the pilot hand propped and the 80/100 amp jasco "charged" it back up so fast it too boiled itself dry! Billable hours...
I believe there are technologies that will improve the both the safety of aviation and the quality of our experience that seem to be hamstrung by the approval processes. I also believe it is the legacy producers who are causing this.
Wishing the major prop manufactures could have made a Catto-esq one years ago.
Why on earth hasn't Gill got on board?
And when you shake your little snow ball of dreams, the flakes settle down some, notice your little yellow cub on skis in there is going to have an electric power plant...
Rocket
cgoldy
Registered User
Moogerah Queensland Australia
I have mine sitting on the bench and procrastinating as to where to mount it. Experimental of course.
Under the back seat utilising the yards of heavy cable already installed is not an option.
Cram it somewhere on the firewall and loose the lovely access to the rear of the engine and further restrict airflow? Also specs suggests it may be too hot in this position. Although I know of others in this position.
Between my rudder pedals? Easiest but specs advise not to mount in cockpit and also not minimising cable length? Is it not recommended because of fire or fumes? If it is fumes, I am not sure that would be a problem in a cub.
inside the right hand boot cowl which would nesitate cutting metal liner and fabricating a custom box and access door. A lot of work and still not minimising cable length.
As always, looking for opinions.
Goldy
Under the back seat utilising the yards of heavy cable already installed is not an option.
Cram it somewhere on the firewall and loose the lovely access to the rear of the engine and further restrict airflow? Also specs suggests it may be too hot in this position. Although I know of others in this position.
Between my rudder pedals? Easiest but specs advise not to mount in cockpit and also not minimising cable length? Is it not recommended because of fire or fumes? If it is fumes, I am not sure that would be a problem in a cub.
inside the right hand boot cowl which would nesitate cutting metal liner and fabricating a custom box and access door. A lot of work and still not minimising cable length.
As always, looking for opinions.
Goldy
kestrel
PATRON
Southern NH
It is a bit long, but anyone who wants some objective (if partisan) information about LiFePo (not the stuff in laptops or Boeings) batteries in aircraft should watch this Webinar.
http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/vide...30349001/webinar--lithium-batteries-explained
http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/vide...30349001/webinar--lithium-batteries-explained
tedwaltman1
FOUNDER
Delta, CO
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
Don't know about a Cub, but I found, to my surprise, I had some unused real estate between my rudder pedals on my experimental firewall, flat on the floorboards. All it took to secure there was 3 tiny, and light, little light gauge aluminum angles screwed into my wood floorboards. My parking brake valve body prevent it from going up, that and the stiffness of the cables, the light weight of the thing of course means you really don't need near as much structure as a securing a 10 or 15 pound battery. From my battery to my mechanical master is about 14", from there to the starter about 8", more weight savings.
I guess I missed the part about not mounting it in the cockpit, now that I know, I'll ignore it, just too many advantages having it there to pass up. I have two big doors I can open that I'm pretty sure would vent anything out if it somehow lite off!
I found it hard to believe at first it wouldn't be in the way there, so I first made a mockup out of cardboard and flew somewhere, after a 2 hour flight with many landings and playing around along the way, I realized I had forgotten all about the "test to see if it was in the way", obviously it wasn't, not even a little.
I guess I missed the part about not mounting it in the cockpit, now that I know, I'll ignore it, just too many advantages having it there to pass up. I have two big doors I can open that I'm pretty sure would vent anything out if it somehow lite off!
I found it hard to believe at first it wouldn't be in the way there, so I first made a mockup out of cardboard and flew somewhere, after a 2 hour flight with many landings and playing around along the way, I realized I had forgotten all about the "test to see if it was in the way", obviously it wasn't, not even a little.
Scouter
SPONSOR
Exeter Maine
Duracell has a AGM sealed lead acid battery that I want to try in the cub. The new version has 220 CCA. I went in to Batteries plus to pick it up and chatted with the owner about batteries, especially lithium. He is really knowlegeble about all kinds of batteries. He said he would not sell me a lithium battery if it is going into an airplane, and then said heres why. Went out back and got this battery. Its a Shorai, which is a pretty big name in lithium. If you look close at the pix, you can see the bottom cells are swelled up and getting ready to burst. It popped the battery top off. His opinion is most lithium batteries are not ready for primetime yet. I dunno, sure was eye opening
Jim
Jim
Attachments
gdafoe
FRIEND
Castle Well Airpark SE of Wickenburg AZ
But did you ask what kind of Lithium cells? That is the question. Needs to be LiFePo. Lithium_iron_phosphate
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
kestrel
PATRON
Southern NH
Unless he told you how it failed, what was done to it, and compared that to an EarthX, all he showed you was FUD. Most lithium batteries are NOT ready for primetime/aircraft use. They lack the Battery Management System and protection circuits that EarthX has. Without more details, he may have done a good job of selling how smart he was, but doesn't actually know what he is talking about. Shorai may be big, but they are not EarthX. There is a difference.
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
Shorai was/is a motorcycle battery, while it is a lithium-iron type battery, it has no internal cell monitoring (BMS). Shorai has a special charger that must be used. You could damage a single cell by overcharging. I don't believe their original battery had a shutdown to prevent complete discharge, which also caused problems. They built quality batteries though and really pioneered the process that highlighted what problems to expect. EarthX has taken these batteries to the next level though. Comparing Shorai to EarthX is apples to oranges.
Alaska_Rallyer
Registered User
Why did you go with the TB battery? I looked at the numbers on the $14k battery and it seemed like it would be hard to beat the concord sealed lead acid long term on price. I usually get two years on a battery. The TB would have to last manny manny years to pay off. Do you see some other advantage other then the higher NG lower start temps? The 32lbs is attractive for the Pilatus but the caravan doesn’t need anymore aft CG then it already has at least on our company planes.
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
Well since it's new, who knows. The TB is supposed to have an eight year maintenance free life. The big engine weighs more, this battery weighs less and is forward of the firewall. We are running five of the -140s and they are all going to end up with this battery. Time will tell whether it is worth it. The big engine Caravan needs more aft.
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Scouter
SPONSOR
Exeter Maine
Here is another discussion on lith batteries I have been following, Its got the best and the worst that the internet offers, really solid info, and guys throwing hand grenades.
You will recognize one of the guys who makes a lot of sense, and gets his ideas presented well. Despite the grenades
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/aircraft-lithium-battery-fires.102016/
jim
You will recognize one of the guys who makes a lot of sense, and gets his ideas presented well. Despite the grenades
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/aircraft-lithium-battery-fires.102016/
jim
Smith PA12
SPONSOR
Goldy
In my experimental 12 I put my earth X under the pilot seat. Pretty simple install. I've had it there all last winter and no issues. I park indoors but not a heated hanger. Temps here in northern BC, -40 C today! Not flying today but we go out in -15 C lots. I always preheat engine compartment but the cockpit doesn't always get heated. Battery has been good, I've never had it go to default mode.
Heres a a pic of my install. Easy to get at, just remove the seat and easy to work on if needed.
In my experimental 12 I put my earth X under the pilot seat. Pretty simple install. I've had it there all last winter and no issues. I park indoors but not a heated hanger. Temps here in northern BC, -40 C today! Not flying today but we go out in -15 C lots. I always preheat engine compartment but the cockpit doesn't always get heated. Battery has been good, I've never had it go to default mode.
Heres a a pic of my install. Easy to get at, just remove the seat and easy to work on if needed.
Attachments
courierguy
MEMBER
Inkom, Idaho
Besides my Earth X I also fly with sometimes as many of three batteries for my electric folding mountain bike. Like the X they are quality (Panasonic and Samsung cells only, no Chinese counterfeits please), and most importantly or at least as important, also a quality BMS. When you feel the energy of one of these bike batteries helping push you up a mountain (i was over 9K several times this year) it really gives you a direct physical sense of what they can do, really amazing tech for what they weigh and cost, and they are only getting better! BTW: I carry the bike batteries in a belly mounted all aluminum bomb shaped pod, either there or on the jury struts sometimes.
CamTom12
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
Stewartb, I appreciate your attempt on the other site. That other guy is an idiot.
I’ve run my EarthX “dead” once by leaving the master on. Hand propped with no issues but no charge coming out of the battery (self protection mode cut it off from inside the battery’s circuits). A quick tap to the terminals with a gpu battery was enough to flash the alternator field and start charging the battery again. That happened pretty soon after I got it, still no issues. The EarthX internal circuitry is what makes that particular brand safe.
Cranked yesterday morning at 32 deg F after having sat for the last month, no battery tender. I ran all the lights and radios off the battery for 15 seconds or so, then turned them all off and tried the start. Stalled on the first compression stroke, but the next attempt spun the engine through like summer time.
I love this battery.
I’ve run my EarthX “dead” once by leaving the master on. Hand propped with no issues but no charge coming out of the battery (self protection mode cut it off from inside the battery’s circuits). A quick tap to the terminals with a gpu battery was enough to flash the alternator field and start charging the battery again. That happened pretty soon after I got it, still no issues. The EarthX internal circuitry is what makes that particular brand safe.
Cranked yesterday morning at 32 deg F after having sat for the last month, no battery tender. I ran all the lights and radios off the battery for 15 seconds or so, then turned them all off and tried the start. Stalled on the first compression stroke, but the next attempt spun the engine through like summer time.
I love this battery.
