Performance STOL Double Slotted Flap system now STC'd for the PA-18
- Thread starter sj
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Little_Cub
MEMBER
Palmer, Alaska
Good points Greg. IMO flaps are more effective in prop wash and although the rudder plays heavily
with lateral control many of us still rely on ailerons. In rough air anything is game!
As a result we have reduced the flap span and attempted to make the shorter devices more effective.
with lateral control many of us still rely on ailerons. In rough air anything is game!
As a result we have reduced the flap span and attempted to make the shorter devices more effective.
B
Barnstormer
Glacier Cub has roll spoilers as does my SQ2. They are located in different areas of the wing and hence sized different. Helps compensate for big wings and short ailerons.
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Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Bob Breeden told me if they had to do it over again they would do away with the ailerons and just use the spoilers since they work at very low airspeeds.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
The MU-2 only has spoilers. It does not have a good accident record. Helio got it right.
here looking at a all flap wing,where that goes back to my question of how much does each foot of flap add to the reduction of airspeed.
For competition, maybe, but for a flying airplane, not me. t
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
Has anybody looked at the cub crafters ailerons on the FX series? I don’t have any time in one in nasty winds, but the responsiveness impressed me in normal weather.
Thicker cord, sticks up into the boundary layer, with a squared off trailing edge.
I’d like to build up a thicker set to try on my PA-11, instead of waiting for a response to the input.
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Thicker cord, sticks up into the boundary layer, with a squared off trailing edge.
I’d like to build up a thicker set to try on my PA-11, instead of waiting for a response to the input.
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
Mauleguy
MEMBER
My Exp Super Cub is a 37 mph landing in no wind at sea level (that is real world gps no bullshit). 1194 empty weight, full fuel (216) with me (160) and my backpack (30) in the back baggage (1600 lbs. total). It has a long wing but no slats and no vg's, 110" Keller double slotted flaps and 89" aileron squared off with Dakota wing tips. This is with good visibility over the nose, carrying power with full flaps. This is not as slow as I had hoped the aircraft would fly but it is what it is. This is not stall speed! I could probably fly it another 3mph slower but I would give up the visibility that I consider more important.
I think a stock wing lightweight cub (1060 pound empty weight) with stock double slotted flaps could do almost as well so not sure having the big wing (added weight) is a payoff.
I think a stock wing lightweight cub (1060 pound empty weight) with stock double slotted flaps could do almost as well so not sure having the big wing (added weight) is a payoff.
B
Barnstormer
Still flying although you probably wouldn't recognize her. She has a different mission now. Slats have been removed and the front suspension has been replaced with TK-1. Both speed mods.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Still running that R engine?
All this info sharing is good. Some of us are lucky enough to put a plane together exactly lime we want it. And then we hope it meets our expectations. The bigger question is what drives our expectations? Win contests and make Youtube videos? Chase your friends around on a sunny day? Use the plane as a family hauler? Different strokes for different folks.
B
Barnstormer
Nope, an O360. Part of the different mission.
Frank, would you post a picture of your flaps here, and how long are they? Why not just go to flaperons, like the kitfox, and have both ailerons and flaps the whole length of the wing?
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Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
But look at the cord of the aileron. A lot of different parameters to deal with other than just length.
Little_Cub
MEMBER
Palmer, Alaska
we ran the "flippers" all the way to the rear spar.. lotsa area but
much of the air is sliding off the tip.
Alright, first the near misses.. we tried several (5) mods at the same time in 2016..some didn't work well!
Flaps were fine we just didn't have much (any) aileron control! We didn't increase the depth of the aileron which
undoubtedly would have helped.. Personally the gain of extending the flaps is FAR OUTWEIGHED by the
increase in control (security) if the ailerons remain within reason. We also used push-pull cables.. this was also
not a real good idea. IMO you can not remove the slack which increases the potential for flutter.
The lesson I think we learned was to make a shorter flap work well in the prop air with longer ailerons and enjoy
both control and performance. Yes spoilers are an option but a bit like adding droopies.. is the complexity worth
the benefit? That said.. (possibly) if we rely on only spoilers (no ailerons) the complexity remains minimal. Another
test.. another day!
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Little_Cub
MEMBER
Palmer, Alaska
tempdoug > Our current flaps work on the idea that we are a 'GroundEffect Vehicle' when near the ground.. we are scooping air from below the wing and
(smoothly) forcing it, with the help of the prop, toward the ground. With the hinges positioned up front the flap fully extends from the cove and allows
a smooth transition for air with a full length carbon gap seal. The flap is very light, very simple and very effective for our mission. I think if you look
at Bobby's AOA on approach and compare.. our forward view is pretty good. We both drop the tail on contact to use up the last of the inertia, however
both flap types lower the nose. The flaps run to the strut attach and the rest is aileron to the tip.
(smoothly) forcing it, with the help of the prop, toward the ground. With the hinges positioned up front the flap fully extends from the cove and allows
a smooth transition for air with a full length carbon gap seal. The flap is very light, very simple and very effective for our mission. I think if you look
at Bobby's AOA on approach and compare.. our forward view is pretty good. We both drop the tail on contact to use up the last of the inertia, however
both flap types lower the nose. The flaps run to the strut attach and the rest is aileron to the tip.
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john schwamm
SPONSOR
Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
Helio's have spoilers on each wing to spoil lift called interceptors that pop up when full aileron deflection is needed at slow speeds.
Land into wind with Helios, or 45 degrees to runway they land so short in wind. Why do crosswind?
John
Land into wind with Helios, or 45 degrees to runway they land so short in wind. Why do crosswind?
John
Little_Cub
MEMBER
Palmer, Alaska
I'm sure it does.. we did a plate years ago that extended a foot both directions, we really felt any cross wind
but IMO the gain wasn't much. Jerry Burr tested his tips and the results speak for them selves! He
beat everyone at Oshkosh in 2017 in his certified J-3 ! (with the exception of Steve Henry in his experimental Just)
Jerry is the sum of all positive parts!! :smile:
but IMO the gain wasn't much. Jerry Burr tested his tips and the results speak for them selves! He
beat everyone at Oshkosh in 2017 in his certified J-3 ! (with the exception of Steve Henry in his experimental Just)
Jerry is the sum of all positive parts!! :smile:
Because my strip is 15' wide with no diagonal approach? That's a primary concern with slats and big flaps, too.
Jonnyo
Registered User
Fairbanks, Ak
Flat Plates Wing Tips
Did the adverse affect of the large wing tip flat plates cause the plane to weather vane into the wind or did it cause increased drift in the direction of the wind? Thanks for your time.
Did the adverse affect of the large wing tip flat plates cause the plane to weather vane into the wind or did it cause increased drift in the direction of the wind? Thanks for your time.
john schwamm
SPONSOR
Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
With Helio one can land with brakes locked and not nose over, just skids to stop.
I’m guessing that’s because the tail is made of lead, the tailwheel of concrete and gold is used as ballast. Next time I volunteer to move the tail of a Helio in grass I’ll be looking for a winch truck!
john schwamm
SPONSOR
Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
Mainly because gear is so far forward, tail for sure is heavy because of the forward gear, but that is why they have a big prop, 96", and geared engine, lots of thrust other straight drive planes do not have. On floats when one cycles the prop it sets you back in the seat. What else can fly at 28mph, land on a dime in a bit of wind that is that size plane?
John
John
john schwamm
SPONSOR
Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
Nothing like them, one year I flew one from Anchorage to Acapulco and back. Landing in Mexico in hotel parking lots, beaches, almost anywhere we wanted, got in a bit of trouble in a few spots, but that was years ago when Mexico was smaller and not as dangerous. They would love a Helio drug plane today!
John
John
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